diff --git a/content/articles/hyperbola-project-meetings.md b/content/articles/hyperbola-project-meetings.md deleted file mode 100644 index 0ac648d..0000000 --- a/content/articles/hyperbola-project-meetings.md +++ /dev/null @@ -1,4540 +0,0 @@ -Author: IRC -Category: Hyperbola Project -Date: 2021-04-20 10:34 -Image: 2020/01/hyperbola-bsd.jpg -Slug: hyperbola-project-meetings -Tags: hyperbola, meeting -Title: Hyperbola Project Meetings - -Meeting Files via IRC channel of HyperBola Project - -
-_Click on me to see_ -## Meet 9 - -~~~~{.irc} -~~~~ -
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-_Click on me to see_ -## Meet 8 addendum - 2021-04-15 - -~~~~{.irc} -[19:28] dankon Emulatorman -[20:58] quiliro: ping -[21:02] quiliro: cuando puedas, fijate si puedes entrar con -> ssh -p 51100 quiliro@git.hyperbola.info - ok - he publicado el log - meeting – 8 - ahi entrarias para poder agregar/quitar/listar repos de git en tu cuenta -[21:03] cuando es para repos compartidos por el equipo, es aqui -> ssh -p 51100 team@git.hyperbola.info -[21:04] aqui esta el codigo fuente del script -> https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/services/git-shell-commands.git/tree/ - Ya ingrese…No entiendo bien las instrucciones que salen cuando entré -[21:05] To list a Git repositories use between: - ‘list’, ‘lsgit’ or ‘gsc_lsgit.sh’ - To make a Git repository use between: - ‘make’, ‘mkgit’ or ‘gsc_mkgit.sh’ - To remove a Git repository use between: - ‘remove’, ‘rmgit’ or ‘gsc_rmgit.sh - ahi es solo para crear repos de git vacios - y despues puedes subir codigo ahi -[21:06] despues una vez creado la web generara la url para el grupo o para otros - creo que en lugar de “between” debe ser “any of the following” - es así? -[21:07] ok, puedes aprovechar y crear un repo con el mismo nombre de git-shell-commands - en team o en el tuyo - y luego haces pull del original y comenzas a hacer commits -[21:08] y a veces debe ser “a Git repository” y otras “Git repositories” - ok - yo no he probado y ni hice ese script -[21:09] no entiendo bien qué hacer - voy a intentar crear uno en el mio para entender como funciona -[21:12] ya lo entiendo! -[21:13] quiliro: copio en un paste lo que hice para evitar “flooding” aqui -[21:14] ok - quiliro: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193930 - pide address y name - ok - hice git-shell-commands dentro del directorio services -[21:15] para el team - y ahora tenemos disponible aqui -> https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git/ - list please -[21:16] voy ahora clonar el directorio que hice - on the paste - after make - ya entiendo - voy ahora clonar -> git clone -ssh://git@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git -[21:17] ok - excelente - ahora voy intentar importar los commits del official -> https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/services/git-shell-commands.git/ -[21:18] y pasarlos para el clon que hice en el team - voy a ver si me acuerdo del comando que estoy un poco olvidado -[21:19] estoy leyendo el man de git pull - porque hay que crear un origen para tomar cambios de otros repos con git pull - pero me olvidé del comando - origin/master -[21:20] git pull origin/master - creo - no es mejor hacerlo mañana? - con gente que hace esto a diario -[21:21] para que otros ayuden y tú puedas descansar un poco -[21:23] en realidad creo que es git pull https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/services/git-shell-commands.git - ya he creado documentation/libertad.git y documentation/freedom.git -[21:24] pero creo que está mal…esos debieran ser archivos, no repositorios -[21:26] creo que esta inestable - estoy con problemas para subir lo que importé -[21:27] oh - git push -[21:28] pude importar con git pull https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/services/git-shell-commands.git - ooh…bueno - ahora como es un repo nuevo tengo que configurar la rama de master -[21:29] segun dice el git - git push –set-upstream origin master - ok -[21:31] me di cuenta que esta mal lo que hace cgit - tira todo en el usuario git - por eso no pude - oh -[21:32] tuve que editar en .git/config de ssh://git@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git a ssh://team@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git - ami no me funciono clonar - cambiando el “git@” por “team@” - es un bug del cgit - oh…debo hacer eso mismo en el comando de clonar - fijate si te funciona - yo pude -[21:33] ahora -> https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git/ - git clone https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git/ - me funciona -[21:36] si pero debes de usar el ssh:// no el https:// para subir archivos - deberias de clonar como git clone ssh://team@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git -[21:37] cambiando el git@git.hyperbola.info por team@git.hyperbola.info - porque esta mal lo que dice el cgit - quizas falte algo por configurar en el cgit, o es un bug - despues el otro bug es que no aparece la previsualizacion de los archivos a no ser si haces click en (plain) -[21:38] digo en cgit en la web - git clone ssh://team@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/services/git-shell-commands.git - me funciona - también -[21:39] si, es el modo para tener acceso a subir tus cambios ahi - ahora puedes subir tus commits ahi - Emulatorman: pardonu, I just cloned the kernel—can you suggest a program to view the formatted markdown? - Emulatorman: el problema de la visualización debe ser por highlighting - biovoid: emacs? - tal vez mirar la ruta adecuada de ::: source-filter=/usr/lib/cgit/filters/syntax-highlighting.py -[21:40] I don’t use emacs - as in I don’t know it - biovoid: for some strange reason, you should clone ssh://team@git.hyperbola.info:51100/ instead of ssh://git@git.hyperbola.info:51100/ for team git repos -[21:41] biovoid: for your own account it is -> ssh://biovoid@git.hyperbola.info:51100/ I had cloned ssh://biovoid@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git - yes, that is the way -[21:42] okay good - you can push your own commits there - if you have plans to push commits in our team, just create a new origin inside .git/config by pointing to ssh://team@git.hyperbola.info:51100 -[21:43] so you can pull/push commits between your git repo and team one - it is the way how to work in environments such as the Linux kernel - understood -[21:44] i will create package repos for the team to push new PKGBUILD’s commits -[21:49] Emulatorman: “HyperbolaBSD esta planeado para implementar nuevas caracteristicas heredadas del nucleo Linux” ¿Qué características en específico se tomará de Linux y de OpenBSD? - quiliro: estan explicadas en la entrevista -[21:50] ok - quiliro: en Linux y los *BSDs - no solo OpenBSD - adoro el sistema de archivos hammer y hammer2 de DragonflyBSD - estaria bueno implementarlo en el futuro para HyperbolaBSD -[21:51] rapido, compacto, seguro, simples - hablé de eso en la entrevista -[21:53] please, keep your own commits in your own branches, not master -[21:54] eg. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/packages/core.git/log/?h=emulatorman -[21:55] how to do: just run -> git branch yournickname - then: git checkout yournickname - Emulatorman: Actually I don’t understand why I would need to change user (`biovoid@git…` to `team@git…`) in the origin. Would that not remove our individual atributions for commits? - pull commits from master: git pull origin master -[21:56] biovoid: you can use custom origins - eg. - go to .git/config - then edit a custom origin -[21:57] Yes, I mean, must it be changed because `biovoid` does not have write permissions to ~team? -[21:58] i mean to create custom remote urls to push between the git repos -* Emulatorman is creating an sample -[21:59] Emulatorman: Linux kernel’s JFFS2 -[22:00] Emulatorman: is that the only thing from linux? - from the interview - biovoid: it is a sample of remotes -> https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193932 -[22:01] only stuff which is gplv3+ - biovoid: so if you want to pull changes from the team’s repo, just run -> git pull team master -[22:02] I thnk I was getting confused on the authentication matching the ~user - biovoid: if you want to push for both (your own repo and team one): you should run -> git push origin master (for you as default remote origin) and git push team master -[22:03] since your repo is the “origin” remote repo the command “origin master” isn’t needed, but i added there to understand the syntax - biovoid: coadde fixed the syntax now in the cgit -[22:04] see here right now -> https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~~biovoid/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git/ - it says ssh://@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~~biovoid/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git - where “” is your own user - or team for shared team account -[22:05] Emulatorman: my question was whether I could use my own user to push to ~team - or need team for both -[22:06] yes of course - check my sample in the paste.debian.net - https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193932 -[22:07] you need create a custom remote path in .git/config - by default, git create a [remote “origin”] when you clone a repo - in that example they all match I mean would ssh://emulatorman@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/packages/core.git work, or do you have to authenticate as team to push to ~team -[22:08] to pull commit, you don’t need use the ssh://, you can use the https:// to avoid authentica everytime, because it just pulling commits -[22:09] makes sense - in that case you can use the default/official url -> url = https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packages/core.git - to push changes you should use the url to push commits, eg -> pushurl = ssh://team@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/packages/core.git -[22:10] if you need 2 push’s urls, then you need create 2 remote instances - right - one as default, called origin -> [remote “origin”] -[22:11] then another one -> [remote “foo”] - in that foo instance, put the custom url, it could be the team, your one, another mirror around internet such as github, etc - then you will push it as -> git push foo master -[22:12] so those commits will be read by git in the remote “foo” instance in the pushurl field eg. -> ssh://team@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/packages/core.git - so those those commits will go to the team git repo instance -[22:13] and both individual user and team user permissions are determined by ssh keys? - yes biovoid - coadde did that in those days - so your instance biovoid only you have access - and team our team -[22:14] Okay, I think everything is clear for now. Thank you for the explanations, Emulatorman - we create a personal git instance for personal reasons, maybe someday you would push your own projects there, eg. a free software source from your university made by you, and you need a git instance for that, etc -[22:15] at least, you guys, don’t need go to libregit, github, etc for that - quiliro: you could save those latest logs for tomorrow -[22:16] i wouldn’t to explain it again :P - or at least to take note for future “HOWTO” or something else, etc - ok…I will add it to today’s logs -[22:17] or maybe create a new log - to make it easy to search - git log - lol - that would be much better, biovoid - ok ty :) -[22:27] typo in [remote “team”] - it is fetch = +refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/team/* - not fetch = +refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/libregit/* -[22:33] quiliro:biovoid: fixed sample -> https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193934 -[22:45] heckyel: cuando puedas, despues fijate si ya tienes acceso - deberia de ya funcionar -[22:46] Emulatorman: sí funciona. Lo probé hace rato :-) - ok genial - ya subi los repos core.git y extra.git en el team - o sea que puedes subir commits ahi - en lo posible hacete una rama (ej. heckyel) - asi no nos pisamos en la rama maestra -[22:47] Emulatorman: bien. Aunque dudo que use mucho el git - quiliro: eso debemos de mencionar mañana en la reunión, para que el equipo se haga sus ramas propias en los repos de team -[22:48] heckyel: ok - usas mercurial? - o subversion? - Emulatorman: uso git. Me refería a subir archivos a git.hyperbola.info :) -[22:49] ah ok - igual de ultima tienes tu propio usuario de git para subir codigos personales - o mirrors -[23:00] Emulatorman: si han terminado, subiré este log - ok, si - ya terminé -~~~~ -
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-_Click on me to see_ - -## Meet 8 - 2021-04-15 - -~~~~{.irc} -[12:22] Minall: you can give everyone the link you gave me -[12:23] Minall: that is very much more begginer-friendly - the people that know could skip it - Which one, the 00×00 Programmer Wannabe course? - yes - https://0x00sec.org/t/programming-for-wannabes-part-i/1143 - A volunteer is preparing a document with a summary of the chats -[12:24] Cool! - thanks Minall - yw -[12:25] and will translate that spanish document to english - Now, we talked about GIT, which is just the tool we use for developing, which let us do essential developing things: Manage changes we make (even changing one letter), rollback if we made wrong changes, and allowing us to be update with the code and publish our changes in a safe repository, away from the main project but with changes that can be added to the main project if they are good -[12:26] The simplest part is just, git are just simple commands, but you have to know what you want to do, for that, a course would do, or just ask for help, that way one can learn if git is capable of what we want to achieve -[12:27] the document with the summary will not be ready for a week more…but the draft is ready - I would like to publish it once coadde1 and Emulatorman_ have set up the git infrastructure -[12:28] so that everyone can collaborate -[12:29] In a git project, anyone can collaborate with their changes, without damaging the main project which is a lot to ask when developing -[12:30] And since this team cares about security, each one of us have given a key which identifies us, so the changes we are making is us and nothing else, and all communications are secured of course -[12:31] Lol - IRC is the farthest thing from security! - tech_exorcist: do you have a ssh key? - I find it ridiculous to discuss Hyperbola’s future plans here. - I have several - great, tech_exorcist - They should do it on a more secure channel. Like tox. - infinite_recursi is because of the topic, I mean, we’re just learning C here -[12:32] Today is ok. - infinite_recursi: isn’t this channel meant to be public? - Some development things to know like git - are you on the hyperbolaBSD development team, tech_exorcist - ? - Yesterday and a couple days before, it wasn’t. - However, important stuff has to be talked through encrypted mail or tox - are you on the hyperbolaBSD development team, tech_exorcist | I’m not - Yesterday and a couple days before, it wasn’t. | uhh, I’m pretty sure that I always autojoined this channel just fine - However, important stuff has to be talked through encrypted mail or tox | of course -[12:33] Encrypted mail cannot reach a group - Encryption typically works for 1 person. - tech_exorcist: would you like to be in the development team? it will demand working 1 hour per day - volunteer -[12:34] What about tox?, but again, we’re forming the dev team, but right now the topic is C introduction - tech_exorcist: would you like to be in the development team? it will demand working 1 hour per day | no thanks, and it’s mainly *not* due the 1 hour per day requirement - but it is not strict, tech_exorcist - hmm - I can’t anyway - I think we’re getting a little off-topic, you can talk about it one to one or outside the meeting quilito tech_exorcist -[12:35] s/quilito/quiliro - Main topic> C Introduction - sorry Minall -[12:36] the point is that contributors need to send Emulatorman_ their ssh public key -[12:37] As I know, C is a low level language, so there’s no much abstraction and you have to make everything on every process right? -[12:38] but it is not mandatory to know how to program….what is needed is that the contributors to the kernel know what are the free licenses we use, what is the hyperbolabsd project and to have the desire to learn to program in C and assembler (a little9 ) - yes, Minall - but it is very powerful - and you can have libraries -[12:39] And it is compiled, aside from other High Level Languages which run without compilation, this makes C testing to need a step to test the program, but makes single code of C quicker, used for drivers which talk directly to hardware, and it is the most flexible thing you can work with - with: include - A code we develop can be compiled to more architectures, not just a x86 but ARM or others -[12:40] everything is compiled…the difference is if they are compiled at runtime or pre-compiled -* Minall Has to go, but he will be connected for the log and watching from above - \o - Minall: nice to see you -[12:41] Minall: meeting will start in 20 minutes - hi quiliro - hey buddy! - So not over?, cool, 2pm is good for me but, I think I will join at the middle of the meeting - so you preponed it 1h today -[12:42] I have some minutes though so, let’s keep going - 1pm Minall - ok - rachad: you asked it to make it earlier -[12:43] but I thought some people might miss it - I did not think it would catch you in the middle of a meal - sorry - Now, C is a low level language because of that you can talk to the HW with it, for that it is used for kernel development… Just to make an example, not just for computers, some device’s kernel is made on C - but it is as it is, rachad -[12:44] will ask next time, rachad - its okay quiliro - i will just miss the first minutes and join you - have you made C programs, Minall ? why don’t you make a test program? - For example, on a game device I had, I could install an app with custom C code, which will allow me to produce sounds connecting to the speakers through a C library and an algorithm -[12:45] So System Libraries are just that, C libraries we can use to -talk to a hardware device - you see fasting means i dont eat or drink anything all day so i cant miss this meal quiliro :) - Let me get you this exact example: -[12:46]* Minall is looking for this example -[12:47] quiliro This is sorta of a complicated example - Do you want me to put it - paste it - on a paste service - but it should be your work -[12:48] that would be good practice - https://pastebin.com/CMcBs5By -[12:49] Now, here I am using some main libraries, and I define frequencies for the speaker to play - Saying something like: If I push the X button on the device, play this frequency - but this is specific for this game device, but it is the same for the computer - Use a system library to connect to a HW, and do something according to what the HW does -[12:50] I have to head out now, I think you can explain the ifs and the math behind it, and the frequencies quiliro -* Minall Coming back after finishing a quick meeting -[12:53] Minall: the exercise is explaining your program to newbies….in 7 minutes -[12:54] Minall: did you write this program or modified someone else’s program? -[13:03] Hello, greetings from the middle of the world. -[13:04] hello LightBearer :) -[13:05] welcome to the meeting everyone…including you, LightBearer - how are you rachad? - im doing great LightBearer - ty quiliro -[13:06] how is life arround you LightBearer - fine thanks a little cold and a small rain. - nice - and there? rachad - a bit cold here as well - see u later -* rachad is going to eat something tasty -[13:07] In this meeting we will discuss C language…feel free to comment what you want about your experience with C languaje just yet. - ok - The power of C be giveth to you my dear! -[13:08] and the spirits of it are to give everyone power. -[13:09] to be free, to code, to read…to make machines serve us - machines shall not have any power over us as users -[13:10] has anyone read https://0x00sec.org/t/programming-for-wannabes-part-i/1143 ? - I have this book “The C programming Language” by Dennis Ritchie -[13:11] It’s good for people who have learnt other languages before. - It’s quite concise, just 190 pages total - Without Appendices - https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/index.htm - oh…nice infinite_recursi -[13:12] infinite_recursi: That’s the one recommended to me by a friend. I started it yesterday - any link? -[13:13] A quick DDG search returns a pdf of the current version (v2), but I am not sure if it is legally hosted, so I am hesitant to share that - v1 is outdated, but available on archive.org - on tutorialspoint, C programming video tutorials require javascript to be shown - biovoid: what is the license? - oof v2 -[13:14] of v2 - what can be outdated of C? - biovoid: Dennis Ritchie is the creator of C language. But it’s concise, it doesn’t explain what happens on hardware when someone writes "float c = 3.14;" -[13:15] I read this fantastic book “Teach yourself Ansi C++ in 24 days by Jesse Liberty.” - Best of the best books to learn programming! - It’s 1st 7 days are enough but it’s a long read. - what about for C? - quiliro: I don’t see an explicit license, but it is published by Prentice Hall, so I hesitate to think it is freely available -[13:16] I don’t know any for C. I’ve read just this 1 for C by Dennis Ritchie - weird it does not have a license - it is not illegal to give a link, biovoid - with that we can check the license -[13:17] even if it is illegal to publish copyrighted works, giving links to them is not illegal - https://hikage.freeshell.org/books/theCprogrammingLanguage.pdf -[13:18] on “outdated”: function calls have changed form since the initial release (much better now IMO), and there are updated notes on best practices - https://b-ok.asia - but not very much has changed - but my pdf link above is for v2 -[13:19] infinite_recursi: Checking available domains. - Please wait… - Unfortunately, no available domains were found. But you can try to login using VPN, TOR browser or suggested domain below. -[13:20] try https://b-ok.cc -[13:21] Try with tor. - Anyways, I’ll leave now. -[13:23] infinite_recursi: you asked the early meeting -[13:24] Yes, in general. I’ll be here tomorrow. I don’t wanna learn C. I already know the syntax. - I need to practice it - the publishing will be communicated in 30 minutes - Also, throgh isn’t here -[13:25] when Emulatorman_ comes - so we can go back to the usual times -[13:26] since they could not come at these times, worse an hour earlier -[13:28] Unfortunately I don’t think it will be possible to cater to everyone’s schedule… I think leadership will have to enforce a stable time, and those with conflicts will be responsible for their own involvement -[13:29] hi guys - i’m available now -* rachad is back - :) - hi Emulatorman -[13:30] hey buddy - hi rachad - the people that called for an early meeting left - ok, seems so - and throgh did not come - it is common, because we have different time zones -[13:31] so I think the best is to keep the same time as before - since the one who preponed the meeting is not intrested we should get it back to the usual time - whoever can come, will come - yes i think so, i prefer the same time as before for workload reasons - for meal reasons here :D -[13:32] I agree with you, for me was very hard to be on time and people are not here with us - LightBearer revived - i was resting some time ago, because i’m working in the nights by developing code and studying - its so important though im fasting all day :) -[13:33] quiliro you think you are funny ;=) - haha -[13:34] haha or jaja are the same thing - we noticed yesterday, LightBearer - i would let you know guys coadde will complete the struture for tomorrow, currently he is developing new scripts to ease the options to create/delete/list git repos for each member in their personal git accounts inside our server - ok -[13:35] have you heard of throgh? - im sure he will join in a bit quiliro -[13:36] no, as i said some time ago, i was sleeping/resting until now - the draft concerning the summary of the chats we had before is ready -[13:37] but it needs to be heavily edited - it would be nice to publish it on a git repo - is somewhere temporary available? - i think i will start using some javascript from trusted sources -[13:38] like riseup pad or disroot cloud - quiliro: you can clone one of our git repos and create commits locally until our git will be available to push -* quiliro weeps for the kidnaping of rachad - ahha - quiliro: im following Emulatorman -[13:39] and throgh -* Minall Is back, with more weapons - nooooooo - HI all - https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/documentation/roadmap.git/ - ok Emulatorman - they use some javascript sometimes - hi Minall - you can clone it - hello minall - will do now -[13:40] then you need create a git repo of that in your personal git account - and another one for team - git clone https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/documentation/roadmap.git/ - to push your commits - on the command line - quiliro roadmap or algorithmg? - neither -[13:41] quiliro: the link you gave us says: repository seems to be empty - Emulatorman: if I clone it, why do I need to create a git repo - then you will need change the URL to ssh://git@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/documentation/roadmap.git - quiliro ^ -[13:42] that “user” git repo is focused for the team who will have entire access there all members - LightBearer: it is not a link…it is a command for the terminal - roadmap.git/info/refs not valid: could not determine hash algorithm; is this a git repository? -[13:43] I guess it is: git ssh://git@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/documentation/roadmap.git - Was my C example of use on the meeting quiliro? - or not, Emulatorman - no Minall - quiliro: if you want create a copy for your personal git account, you can create a different “origin” in ssh://git@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~~quiliro/documentation/roadmap.git by creating a git bare repo clone - it would have been, if you would have explained, Minall -[13:44] :c, I had to go, but I’m here now - quiliro: for that, coadde is creating a script to ease the life of us - Once we end this git topic I can explain a little - thanks Minall - quiliro: so you will can access to your personal git account and just respond the options to create git bare repos there -[13:45] but what can I do right now, Emulatorman ? - quiliro: even you could push your personal ones from different projects while those ones are free and follow the FSDG and Hyperbola Guidelines - quiliro: let me see the new coadde structure right now… -[13:46] “coadde structure” sounds so exclusive! - So right now we’re making the git repo for us to clone? - coadde1: ^ -[13:47] coadde will push the source codes of those scripts soon - Minall: coadde1 is making it easier to work with several teams - they will be licensed under GPLv3 -[13:48] nice! - quiliro: i saw the new structure, so i suggest you clone the repo in https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/documentation/roadmap.git if it will be adapted for Roadmap - at least that repo will be adapted for the team -[13:49] and focused only for Roadmap - remember create an custom origin by pointing to your personal git repo -[13:50] i suggest it for backup reasons (eg. if some member messes the entire git repo), so you will have a backup to restore - Btw Emulatorman, can we make the other meetings over a tox group chat?, it would be even better - quiliro Ok - when that repo will be available for access, just edit in .git/config by changing that URL to ssh://git@git.hyperbola.info:51100/~git/~team/documentation/roadmap.git -[13:51] why you would go to tox Minall - Minall, why? i think the IRC is transparent for everyone - Yeah but, we’re talking about the project git and all rachad, Emulatorman… Not about C - Emulatorman: git clone https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/documentation/roadmap.git - Cloning into ‘roadmap’… - fatal: https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/~team/documentation/roadmap.git/info/refs not valid: is this a git repository? -[13:52] Or has the meeting ended?, then I’m confused - Same message for me quiliro - quiliro: i see, seems it still under construction :s - quiliro: well, you will need wait for tomorrow sadly - ok - I tried todo it and I had trouble with it. -[13:53] quiliro: try use a pad or something else - I have used the console - quiliro: there are some pads without js, but i forget their url right now - pastebin -[13:54] ok -[13:55] What is a pad? - pad and console are the same thing? -[13:56] Not even sure what a pad is LightBearer - a pad is a collaborative text editor -[13:57] console you mean console under Xorg or just console like Ctrl+Alt+F6 - in short, it is called “etherpad” - Oh, I know - ahhh is not a console… - a console or terminal is where you can type to a shell - yes and a lot of people are working at the same time in the same document. - LightBearer they aren’t the same then, is like a odt document which I’m editing with someone else remotely -[13:58] Once I worked on it with a group. - an odt is very complicated to edit at the same time, a pad is not - you can edit an odt sequentially, not simultaneosly - ok thank you minall for asking and quiliro for responding us. -[13:59] I think there was a packckage to use it as a pad…but it is so heavy on the machine - it is like googledocs…horrible -[14:00] and nonfree - even more horrible - I think throgh is not comming -[14:01] quiliro: do you accept free js? or in short non-js independent if it is free or not? - quiliro packckage must be a munster :=) - would someone please remind him on the forum? - I think that’s a no >.< -[14:02] LightBearer: yes…libreoffice online is a horrible munster! - but at least it is free - haha - I find it cool since it is free, even if it can be bloated? -[14:03] you think you are funny too, don’t you, LightBearer ? LOL - Lets me use unfree word documents that gave me at work without depending on other more bloated non-free software like microsoft office - oh…you can just start plain text -[14:04] wdm? - that way, there is no problem with versioning - Like when I have to see a table on xlxs, and I of course don’t use office cause propietary versioning and collaborating in these formats is almost impossible -[14:05] Libreoffice helps me there - Yeah - the best is to make tables in org - not more simple and can have graphic output -[14:06] but that is off-topic - sorry to get carried away -[14:07] jaja don’t worry - This topics are educational - could anyone notify throgh on the forums? -[14:08] why is he coonected in the forum right now - email him quiliro -[14:09] I use javascript (even free code) as often as when I can eat horrible foods…very once in a while - I’m just registering LOL - I do not want to use javascript in the forum - you can use the forum without javascript quiliro -[14:10] how? - I think JavaScript isn’t the problem, unfreeness of it is - I can read them only - Wait how rachad?, that’s cool - kust disable it in your browser and use the forum - javascript will run code on my machine - *kust = just - quiliro True, I can access the forum through eww -[14:11] rachad: I cannot use eww to post - it doesn’t require javascript to post in the forum though - really? - but it does to login -[14:12] without loggin in, I cannot post - idk why eww doesn’t work quiliro but i use the forum without javascript with iceweasel-uxp or iceap-uxp - yes - and i can login and post as well :) - Logged now - but I do not want a js-capable browser, even if it can be blocked -[14:13] quiliro I am readying the link you gave us today about wannabe - It is possible to have a bug - it is a very big software - and it is very heavy - i didn’t use javascript for a year less or more -[14:14] why does it work without js in iceweasel-uxp and not in eww? - That’s indeed strange - LightBearer: that link was given to me by Minall - lets thank Minall -[14:15] Perhaps try with another console browser without javascript, to say it is not eww faulth - Thanks quiliro - good idea - i will try lisp - maybe lynx -[14:16] Yeah - lynx sorry - lol -[14:20] terminal type? vt100 -[14:27] inside of exwm it is very hard to use links, lynx or elinks - I would need to configure fonts for the terminal - quiliro Use vterm, or term - I do not have a real terminal here -[14:28] Use term then - Or go Ctrl+Alt+F3 - I will get disconnected from chat -[14:29] if I do that - Then try term quiliro - term is another terminal like shell or eshell - I do not have those programs - But more of a terminal for what you need on lynx - term is included in emacs - M-x term - I have shell an eshell -[14:30] You do not have M-x term? - To exit it if you have it, just ‘exit’ like a normal terminal -[14:31] worked…but it has weird characters in lynx -[14:32] No clue then… Perhaps you can install a temporal terminal -like xfce4-terminal? - It works in these cases, you can call it when you have these situations and it is lean - From XFCE -[14:33] the idea to use exwm was not to do that - how to search for or access a link in lynx - rachad: use ? - yeah but i keep reading -[14:34] its too much for someone who just wants to try hyperbola forum -[14:35] quiliro just asking, what about Icecat?, it is fsf recommended and all - You introduced it to me, and it blocks JS by default - Just for searching the hyperforum since, you don’t like navigating to other pages - Hello together! - rachad What are you trying to achieve again? - hello throgh - through !rehtegot olleH -[14:36] throgh - Sorry being late, reworking the X200 was more work. :( - Hello Minall. - hi throgh - hi throgh - hi throgh - Hello :) - even the bot lol -[14:37] Now with account again. ;) - Minall: im trying to test lynx - Is there an update for doing another news-entry? Otherwise, I’ll upload something done today for the course! - maybe login to the forum and post something - we missed you, throgh … we’ve waited 96 minutes -[14:38] Sorry, mentioned yesterday that I had to do a rework on my machine -> display. - yeah today we started the meeting 1 hour ealier - throgh reworking? are you trying to libreboot? -[14:39] rachad What do you need?, do you have it installed? - No this is Libreboot, but with non-IPS. Now with IPS! - I am trying to enter the forum with plain text browser as eww…but I cannot post - Full better quality. - throgh not sure what you mean - @quiliro: Which browser? - Emacs eww -[14:40] Of that’s cool!, that had to be a lot of work but, now you have a 100 free device - Emacs web wowser - throgh What is IPS? - what is IPS? - haha - >.< - throgh: who do i know if my display is ips or not - quiliro: im trying to do the same using lynx maybe it will work -[14:41] @Minall http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display#Flexview_.28IPS.29 - i have a x200 as well throgh - i cannot see those characters, throgh - quiliro: I got pinged for some reason, what’s up? - recently upgraded the ram to 8gb -[14:42] elibrokeit: in case you want to come to the hyperbolabsd development meeting - For the ones interested, just try to look from the side on your TFT. If your display changes colour and cannot be viewed good, than this NON-IPS. -[14:43] Ehhh… - I have been idling in this channel because I’m the upstream for “pacman” - elibrokeit: you are late but the meeting is late too - upstream for pacman? - oh…sorry then, elibrokeit - throgh Cool, my laptop has IPS then - Yes, I’m an archlinux staff member - okay throgh its non-ips here -[14:44] I’m in the parabola, manjaro, archlinux32, archlinux-arm channels too… I was in the anterior channel but they’re dead now. - *antergos -[14:45] The upgrade can be done. If interested I’ll post later more information about that. Had a tryout with another Libreboot-machine and thought I just can change the full monitor from the chassis, but no. :( Therefore more time. - throgh: can we start with some tips for C language, please? -[14:46] for learning, that is - okay post more info about it throgh maybe pictures if you took any doing the changes - We aren’t in the meeting though, some people that were here won’t read this - Of course we can start. :) -[14:47] (but as far as hyperbola bsd goes I honestly don’t get why not just be a BSD) - Perhaps I’ll give some first little “Hello world”-program and try to give some view on this. - elibrokeit: your welcome to leave archlinux and join hyperbola :) -[14:48] it would be great, but I doubt he has any interest, rachad - or she - But first things first: This is real another entry into some first steps for C. - (he) - Looking onto this: https://www.programiz.com/c-programming/examples/print-sentence - maybe Emulatorman can answer that elibrokeit -[14:49] throgh: I cannot see those characters - Okay, will use another one. - quiliro: you have some font issues ? -[14:50] yes, rachad - i fixed what i hade quiliro maybe i can help -[14:51] elibrokeit: https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/ - #include - int main() { - // printf() displays the string inside quotation - printf(“Hello, World!”); - return 0; - } - oh! i cannot even see my own link! - Is this better? - thanks throgh -[14:52] This function can be done with void main()?, and just call it or, am I mistaken - I think term was the guilty one - sorry, I don’t acknowledge your weird “the kernel is including rust” panic - Okay :) going line by line. First you see the directive to include a so called header-file. In this case it is the absolute base for some Standard-IO (Input / Output). -[14:53] test https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/ - :-( - Do you even realize the kernel devs are even more against rustc than you are? - they’re prospectively considering to add Kbuild support for gcc-rs - Afterwards you see in the next line your first function, the so-called “main”. -[14:54] which will be a GPL3 reimplementation of the language spec in GCC - throgh Can we use the stdio in our algorithms?, to test them and print stuff? - elibrokeit: thank you for the information…will check it later….we are now in a meeting to introduce C language - elibrokeit so rust isn’t an issue?, or is it getting included -[14:55] Well true - @Minall: Regarding the kernel-development this is a bit more complex. Of course there are possibilities for debugging, but for now this little example is for the purpose to get some entrypoint. - throgh Thanks, Carry on - Okidoki. - :) - the LKML discussion on rust that I remembered seeing, deadlocked when a bunch of high profile names said “no, rust is completely unsuitable because linux compiled with gcc cannot include LLVM-based rust object code” -[14:56] When I mention return-values, everbody is able to follow? - and then gcc-rs got announced - Or should we talk a short about return-values within functions? Just to mention as in the forum: I’m making also a bit more complex guide and course-material. - and that is being hailed as the future of the rust programming language, and the way to bring its glories to the kernel -[14:57] elibrokeit Then we don’t have a rust problem? For everyone interested: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?pid=2914#p2914 - So: my strong expectation is, Linus Torvalds is not going to merge the technology preview of “rust support for kernel modules”, until after gcc-rs is stable - throgh I think we should talk a little about return values, since header algorithms return a lot of different types -[14:58] hence: there won’t be a problem of using rust-lang’s trademarks, because rust-lang is not going to be invited to the kernel - Thanks, I will read it later throgh - Okay, as Minall said: Then we talk about functions also. So you see the “main()”-function and it got a value to return. In programming there is one major: Divide complexity – no I won’t use “Divide and Conquer” for now. ;) -[14:59] elibrokeit But gcc-rs right? - Divide complexity? - yes, gcc-rs will be at least optional, to begin with, for the kernel - Don’t only think about the syntax of a language itself. It is more about: What do you want to do? What kind of algorithm do you want to implement? -[15:00] Yes, complexity is of course not within the example above. Well in fact: This little program just output “Hello World” in the terminal, nothing more and nothing less. :) -[15:01] (you’ll be able to write new code using rust and compiled with GCC’s rs implementation into GCC “gimple” IR, then unified into the resulting output artifacts. The minimum version of GCC for building the kernel will, appropriately, be raised.) -[15:02] throgh: it is our TODO’s phase process to develop our kernel -> http://0x0.st/-TCC.txt - throgh: I could see your link with the example of Hello World…it was very explanatory of the elements - throgh, everybody is talking about different topics and I don’t know what are the instructions for your class today - please explain once again! - explain it - I suspect they’ll be very cautious about rewriting the core of the kernel in rust, until it has shown its value over a long period of time. -[15:03] anyway! - Thanks for the explanation elibrokeit, it was educational - the bigger issue which makes rustc *completely* unsuitable for the kernel — and Linus Torvalds knows it - Okay, wait. Could we please focus on one topic first? :) I don’t want to break some talks here and I’m sorry for being late to the talk now. So I’ll do my best keep an eye so everyone has a chance to follow. :) - Right now we will keep going with our C topic - is that rustc doesn’t support many CPU arches - Thanks! - :) -[15:04] the kernel *does* - GCC *does* - Minall, elibrokeit would you please delay your chat for 1 hour ? - GCC-rs *will* - Sorry, ok - Just give me half an hour. :) -[15:05] quiliro, minal and elibrokeit, yes please to continue with C language. :=) - :) - Okay, I hope the short little program for everyone is in the chat and you all can review the lines. - But I’ll restart with “divide complexity” as major way. -[15:06] throgh: can we do a practical exercise? - it could be fun - but a very simple one - @quiliro: Yes, this is one plan. But let me finish the explanation first. :) - to show everyone that they can do it on their mchine - ok -[15:08] Think about the following: The little program above is just one function, showing you a nice greet within the terminal. Nothing more! But what about programs doing even more? Of course you can do most things for a smaller project within “main()”. But it is better to have the growing complexity under your control. -[15:09] So that’s the major task we all have: Getting to understand WHAT we want to reach with one function, class and enumeration. Also STRUCTURE the logic so it is readable for everyone interested and with knowledge about the syntax. -[15:10] Of course you could build everything just all within one line for smaller programs, but I say: After one year you won’t even understand what you’ve done. Therefore there are code-stylguides and therefore you all have the way to get a clear sight onto one package. -[15:11] okay we want to help Emulatorman build the next verry secure system :) - You want to build a parser or a game? Okay, but therefore you have to divide different parts of this so big task. Otherwise the project won’t be done in any way and you don’t get it to work. - throgh: what are those terms: function, class and enumeration -[15:12] Building the next secure system? A kernel? Okay, but there are many parts: Interfaces, system-calls, hardware-communication in general. - @quiliro: Good question: A function can be one part to execute some snippet of code you have in mind to be called. I’ll give you one example to follow. -[15:13] I had the task to build a sort-program once: Just imagine this. A folder full with PCL-files and all of them have at minimum one page inside, but can be also include two pages, three or more than three. -[15:14] PCL-files are printer-commands generalized in a file. Can be send right away to a printer. ;) - Shortterm for “Printer-Command-Language”. - I understand a function is a command to take some input, do several things with it and give an output - Absolutely! -[15:15] Can a function return another function?, like high level functions -[15:16] You have in fact for any function some kind of return-value. You can of course call functions within other functions – perhaps to assign values to a variable. - throgh: that short program, what did it do? -[15:17] @quiliro: You mean the one with PCL-files? Well as I’ve mentioned: It should enumerate the files, sort them in subfolders and afterwards quit. - oh - and that was a function? -[15:18] Yeah, that’s the part I rely on here for explanation: Of course I could do everything in the “main()”-function. - But this would be a desaster and when looking at the program within a year, I would not understand what I had done. - throgh: in real life a short program like that, what can be used for? give me an example please -[15:19] LightBearer: M-x erc-tls is a function - @LightBearer: Of course, this program is right away in daily use for output-management. It’s task is to sort the PCL-files generated and afterwards sorting them in subfolders. A cron-job is later called to merge all PCL-files into one PDF-file. -[15:20] cool - erc-tls is a function - thanks guys, I see the usability of this powerful litle program. - Ah and you know even the program this example is using for the cron-job. It is GhostPCL! :) -[15:21] I assume LightBearer uses emacs then quiliro - cool - yes, Minall - ;-) - yes Minall “what do you eat, that you guess?” - que comes que adivinas - Everything is emacs is a function, if you use: C-h k o, you will see that when you press ‘o’, you call a function that returns ‘o’ -[15:22] This is the beauty of emacs, this makes it easy to extend - LightBearer LOL - lol - throgh So basically a function is: call and execute something? - So as I’ve said: The first task is to divide complexity. In our concurrent talk and the mentioned program (which I can post later in the forum if you whish, but it is a MinGW-source, not GCC alone) I had to divide the different steps of the task. - And if necessary, arguments, of course… -[15:23] So I try to do a scribble of that: 1) Looking for all files in a folder 2) reading every file and interpret the page-count 3) sorting the file found into a subfolder -[15:24] GCC is the C compiler….what is MinGW? - arguments are the input? - @quiliro: In fact the same but for Windows (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinGW). -[15:25] @Minall: Yes, calling a function means also doing some part of the task you want to do. - On a function: int main(), what comes inside the parentheses are the arguments, these are variables you pass the function if needed, for example, a function that returns the number we gave to him from -outside- the function would be: -[15:26] int main(int someVariable) {return someVariable * 2} where someVariable is multiplied by 2 - Perhaps I’m mistaken on the syntax btw, correct me if I’m wrong throgh -[15:27] mingw is not a C compiler, though it does include one - @Minall: The main-function has no input-parameters. :) - @elibrokeit: Thanks! :) - it’s just a collection of tools (including GCC!) built for another platform (Windows) - Didn’t knew that, but welp, not main but another function like: returnTheDoublePls(int i) { … } -[15:28] Just like other compile tools for arm or other arquitectures - is this clear, LightBearer - ? -[15:29] That would be for later and also part of the style-guide itself. Sometimes there are things better not to do: This is some kind of code-quality. - please ask, if unsure -[15:30] Of course: Please break the talk if something is not clear. - throgh is very patient ;-) - And I know even this all is much for now. If I post the program later in the forum, this is a bunch of code. -[15:31] I readying the information and Iam trying to remember the lecture I made of it. - LightBearer: i think we should start by reading https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/index.htm and follow with throgh in our meetings as well - start coding and compiling small programs - not lecture I tried to say the readying of the link that throgh gave me yesterday. -[15:32] When you look onto the code of HyperbolaBSD: You see different C- and Headerfiles. Structured in general. Many different information and data-structures. But that’s the main concept: Structuring complexity and dividing it so you have capable little snippets you can work on. -[15:34] rachad: that is a great manual - Doing all of that in just one file? Perhaps possible, but more or less later a problem for everyone to read, including ourselves. :) So making readable code, making it understandable is the first point. After that: C is using the concept of Headerfiles and C-files for real execution and commands. - yeah quiliro its one of Emulatorman shared links and what he started with wen learning C -[15:35] what is the difference between Headerfiles and C-files? - what are these? -[15:36] Coming to this with an example from HyperbolaBSD. - I presume “header files” really means “C-header-files” -[15:37] and “C-files” really means “C-code-files” - Makes sense - Look here: https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git/plain/arch/amd64/amd64/acpi_machdep.c - Now, header and code files are exactly the same, but headers are specific algorithms? - This is one C-file with execution in it. - but maybe you could use less confusing terms, like, perhaps… “.h files and .c files” -[15:38] both of which implement the C programming language - Mentioned earlier we have the INCLUDE-directive. - quiliro: did you check to read this tutorial? -> https://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/c-tutorial.html - So you see also there are many Headerfiles included for definitions. -[15:39] .h are the headers and .c are the code-files - ? - quiliro: afaik, it is a simple website - This is one: https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git/plain/dev/acpi/acpireg.h - Yes, rachad. :) - This is the part that confuses me, structures, pointers and externs - And some unseen syntax like -> - through: did you check it too? - You can see within the last file: There are definitions and data-structures being used. -[15:40] Yes, reading it already for the course-material in preparation. - i suppose it should work in a simple browser such as the Emacs one -[15:41] i checked it Emulatorman and im starting to read wen ever i find some free time - ok - i think it will help give us the basics - Hope so. But I also try to break this down, building a PDF-file to read slide by slide (LibreOffice Impress). - at least, it could be as reference in conjuction with throgh’s guidance -[15:42] throgh Lets say I have to read a PDF file, and use a c library for reading the file in the code - At that point, I have the file, binaries, how can I ‘read it’? -[15:43] Well, you need also some kind of library to read the PDF-file, interpret perhaps data within in it. So you need the code from the library, the so-called API to implement and use within your program. -[15:44] There are different approaches doing this: Compiling the library with your program with a static link a build-time? Or use the external libraries afterwards on the system – the presumption: library MUST be installed or your program won’t start. -[15:45] throgh: I already found in the reading some files .h it is one of them and I copy here: #include -, but I cannot find the .c - Okay, you need to use the git-repository itself. Wait! - Makes sense, thank you throgh -[15:46] Where could I find this library I need?, in the case I want to statically compile it with my program? - It would be better to just use a system one of course, but just for the record -[15:48] Oh, the git-repository seems to be broken for now? Ah damn, using an alternative. -[15:49] throgh: our git repo still under contruction - Okay, then in another way: Try to see the file viewing as the concrete point where you look onto the structure of files and folders. -[15:50] coadde is doing it - @Emulatorman: No problem! :) - So when looking at #include … there is a folder including this file. -[15:51] So it is also about structuring logic, using algorithms / recipes and structuring the code-files itself. -[15:52] throgh I see in some files that we have data types I don’t recognized, are these also included from the header files? - LightBearer: the .h work as refrence for the .c files so inside the .c using #include something.h will use its values as refrence for your a.out wen it gets compiled - https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/c_header_files.htm -[15:53] correct me if im wrong throgh - @Minall: You can define your own, perhaps you need some further address-room later and no data is capable about doing that. - But perhaps it is best to do some work at the end? Much theory, now some practice? -[15:54] You all remember the little program at the entry? - The “helloworld” one? - Yeah - yes - Just copy the code and make some new file with your terminal. Name the file as you want: Mine is “helloworld.c”! :) -[15:55] For the next step to follow, we need a compiler being installed! - So you all now the packages for your distribution to do this? - If not, no problem: Let’s look onto this. :) - then use: gcc helloworld.c - Yep! :D -[15:56] LightBearer: do you have gcc installed - Done - On Debian: “sudo apt-get install build-essentials” - @Minall: gcc helloworld.c? -[15:57] Yes, I have a.out as an output file - its the compiler of your .c files LightBearer - Okay, then try “./a.out” - it should print hello world in your terminal :) - Yeah - As said: Just a little program, nothing ground-breaking. - Minall: you can rename the output file from the gcc command eg. gcc helloworld.c -o helloworld.exe - I have Hello World! in my terminal, without space though -[15:58] That would be better - Yes, now you can experiment with your own workflow. :) Just as -Emulatorman pointed on! - Why .exe? lol - Let me try that - Minall: just an example - rachad yes I do have gcc installed on my computer. - you can create it as helloworld.peppapig -[15:59] :D - ;-) - lol - Yes, I can change its name - lol - Wait - Why is my pc burning after creating helloworld.peppapig? - Matrix?, is my pc trying to tell me something - I have used the console and I have typed the word gcc - - For linebreak: printf(“Hello, World!\n”); -[16:00] @LightBearer: Tryout this: nano helloworld.c -[16:01] Copy the content: GNU nano 2.8.2 -Datei: helloworld.c - #include - int main() { - // printf() displays the string inside quotation - printf(“Hello, World!\n”); - return 0; - } - Ah okay, #include - int main() { - // printf() displays the string inside quotation - printf(“Hello, World!\n”); - return 0; - } - Again! :D - #include - int main() { - // printf() displays the string inside quotation - printf(“Hello, World!\n”); - return 0; - } - So better. -[16:02] Afterwards: gcc helloworld.c -[16:05] Done - Looks better, -[16:06] Is now a break line, a Normal Hello, World!, then return to terminal -[16:07] Congratulations: Yes, it is simple but the first program to -compile. :) - So this is all about compilation, that’s cool - Now we go to the robots engineering part? - Ha, there is more to come. ;) -* Minall is exited -[16:08] First things first: You can also try to build more sentences perhaps? -[16:09] Just “”?, does it accept ”? - Minall: could you send me again your public ssh key? - I added 3 more printf’s - Minall: coadde lost it -[16:10] Emulatorman right away, let me connect to tox - Minall: he is near to complete the structuring - Nice! - throgh Compiling error: expected ‘;’ before ‘return’ - throgh: Yupi! I have done, - it - i’m trying to contact heckyel and pekman, the first one isn’t responding from tox while pekman is offline - And does the printf() function accept ”? - @LightBearer: Now try executing. :) - And are there other ways of using the printf function? -[16:11] Of course there are. I have another example, enhanced one. But -let’s wait until everbody has finished! -[16:12] Emulatorman just sent it through tox - throgh Very well -[16:13] So another enhanced example with more for the curious ones. - #include - #include - int main() - { - int count, num; - printf(“Ten Random Numbers:\t”); - for(count = 1; count <= 10; count++) - { - num = rand() % 100; - printf(“%d\t”, num); - } - printf(“\n”); - return 0; - } - I know this is just one big jump now. ;) - My problem was the last ;, is this necessary? -[16:14] what did i miss - Could you post your code? - :) - ? - http://0x0.st/-AP8.png - Welcome back, rachad. - I had printf(“something more”) but without the end ‘;’ - I could do it too - So compilation failed, - thank you throgh :) -[16:15] You need the “;” at the end of one command. - Ah syntax-error. :) - Yes, the compiler is the one in charge and control: Parsing your source before compiling it for the machine. - When not fitting the ruleset: Nothing compiles. My bad: Had to mention that! -[16:16] Makes sense - What is this strange but amazing code you gave us - Ten random numbers? - Yes, I can show you the output. :) - But perhaps lets go through line by line again for the end. - I already have it my friend - Ok - First you have another included header from the STD-definitions. -[16:17] For the usage of “rand()” now. - Afterwards we have our “main()”-function. - #include - int main() { - // printf() displays the string inside quotation - printf(“Hello, World!”); - return 0; - throgh I have typed in the console the phrase gcc helloworld.c then ls *.out and then the console reflected Hello, World! - - Try “./a.out”. -[16:18] Another possibility and better way: - gcc helloworld.c -o helloworld - my fonts are degrading -[16:19] I will loose the log if I exit - please do not post anything until I come back for 1 minute or 2 - quiliro: can you check /etc/locale.conf - whats in there ? -[16:20] it has not changed, it is just my emacs - Okay, waiting! :) No problem. - thanks, bye - I’m heading out in 10 minutes guys -[16:24]*** Topic for #hyperbola: The official IRC channel of Hyperbola Project – https://www.hyperbola.info | Ops: coadde, Emulatorman, Gaming4JC, labelette | See “Hyperbola and anti-discrimination” in the social contract for IRC rules – https://wiki.hyperbola.info/social_contract | unregistered users: want voice? pm to any op *** #hyperbola: topic set by Emulatorman!~andre@gateway/tor-sasl/emulatorman, 2018-10-31 01:13:21 *** Users on #hyperbola: quiliro rachad Glider_IRC coadde @Emulatorman throgh LightBearer Minall tech_exorcist +hyperbot SomeHacker dmc raghavgururajan asdflkj_shell GoatAvenger ZANSIGO leomd_ bandali kisaja[m] Voitena[m] iortega[m] hook54321 nckx biovoid Redfoxmoon GNUtoo bcavileer urluck jschwart asdflkj elibrokeit lukeshu ggoes mai__ lablt -[16:25] hello again - any other messages sent? - throgh: what happened? -[16:26] Welcome back, quiliro. -[16:27]*** #hyperbola modes: +cnt *** #hyperbola was created on 2017-04-15 11:53:16 - bye bye - NOpe - @quiliro: Nothing so far. :) We waited. -[16:28] thanks - got back my fonts! - So I’ll just give preview on the code posted above. - could not even read the nicks -[16:29] Now everything is better? - why does that happen quiliro - because I opened a terminal - but we’ll talk about that later - okay -[16:30] I get errors - Errors? - on the numbers.c - compilation - Okay, what kind of errors? -[16:31] LightBearer: did you print the hello world -[16:32] numbers.c:8:7: error: expected expression before ‘{’ token - { -[16:33] Seems like there is a problem with the copy?! -[16:34] throgh: eureka - Working? :) - I could do it, it was hard for me, but I could do it! - Ha, happy with that. :) Super! -[16:35] So let’s have a short look onto the second example. I know this is a right higher jump, but let’s give it a try. - First this line here: int count, num; - We have here two variables defined: “count” and “num”. - rachad: I could print both excercises -[16:36] A variable is defined with name, type and value. - the newbie makes her first program before the teacher and her second program too! - You see: Both now have a type and a name. - exercises - :-) So “int” is a keyword in C. -[16:37] nice LightBearer - am I the newbie? the padawan? - yes -[16:38] Looking here for some defined datatypes in C: -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_data_types - throgh: could you please post a paste? I have some problem which I cannot solve - Okay. - #include - #include - int main() - { - int count, num; - printf(“Ten Random Numbers:\t”); - for(count = 1; count <= 10; count++) -[16:39] { - num = rand() % 100; - printf(“%d\t”, num); - } - printf(“\n”); - return 0; - } - I have exactly that - but I get errors -[16:40] print your error here - please paste on a file… - http link - Have you onw platform with best results? - *one -[16:41] numbers.c:8:7: error: expected expression before ‘{’ token - 0x0.st ? - Ah okay. Wait! - https://0xx0.st - woops - https://0x0.st -[16:42] that is better - http://0x0.st/-APA.c -[16:44] throgh: do you use vim or emacs ? -[16:45] @rachad: No, just “nano” for now. :) But sometimes emacs. I -want to tryout vim also, but had no entry until now. -[16:46] im learning with vim to get used to it -[16:47] Should do the same! :) -[16:48] Just to inform: Both code-snippets are also in the forum now. - https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?pid=2916#p2916 - works beautifully now - Okidoki! :) -[16:49] Now a look onto the snippet. - After the variables being declared – without any value – we have another “printf”-command. - rachad: I have used the editor of the beast before…it was pleasant…but nothing beats the holyness of Emacs -[16:50] why you call it the editor of the beast quiliro :D - But this time with “\t” meaning TAB-character. -[16:51] That’s the output “Ten Random Numbers:[TAB]”! You can see here: The program is doing the execution line by line coming to one result. -[16:52] And what next? Well, this construct is called “for”-loop. - What’s that? Well: You remember the variables? - rachad: it is just a joke - We use them here right now. - rachad: vi vi vi is a joke about it - how to use TAB throgh ? - it is not serious - sorry if it offends -[16:53] The variable “count” is getting the value “1” and is increased until “10” in this loop. - Everything within is done for every execution-step. - alright quiliro :) - @rachad: With “/t”. :) - “\t” -[16:54] yeah were we use that - So we have “count” being initialized. Within the “for”-loop now we use the other variable “num”. - Doing the construct: num = rand() % 100; -[16:55] And here comes your first external function called from outside: rand() - https://linuxhint.com/rand-function-in-c-language/ - nevermind i get it now throgh -[16:56] But that’s not all: There is a “Modulo” within this execution. - https://manderc.com/operators/modoperator/index.php - So the “rand()”-function just gives one number, afterwards -doing a “modulo” with 100. -[16:57] Everything is saved for this one loop into the variable “num”. - After “num” gets one new value for a loop-execution we have -another “printf”. - This time with output for the number itself. :) -[16:58] So Minall had the question if “printf” can do more. The answer is: Yes! - is the modulus a multiplier for the result of rand()? - My bad, here is a definition in English. Wrong link above. - https://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/modulus.html -[17:00] i will have to read that slowly tomorrow i have all day to study now im verry sleepy - will leave you here guys - Okay, rachad. :) We just speak about the rest. But take here on later! -[17:01] thank you throgh and everyone else :) - Have a good rest, rachad. - see u all next time - See you later. ;-) -[17:02] To mention the “printf”-command: It is about showing the concurrent value of “num” with “%d”. - Now you see also to use variables within the “printf”-command. - For a tryout: Just change the command. -[17:04] printf(“number – %d\t”, num); - did not get a chance to say bye - but made a change https://termbin.com/t3vs -[17:05] that is what I was busy with - Ah I see: Playing with the code. That’s fine! :) -[17:07] After the “loop” is finished – by reaching “10” as maximum: There is another “printf” with a simple linebreak. - What we can see here is a bit more complex program: Calling outside functions coming from defined libraries and source-files (the std-lib). Also some further operations for computing itself. -[17:10] Everything understandable so far? - the changes I made were: added num1 to the int definition, added the operation to calculate num1 and changed the operation for calculating num -[17:11] quiliro beautiful, I could run it and I saw your experiment. - you are not the beautiful, your experiment :=) - You can also output the concurrent “loop”-point you are into! - oh…and I added the other number and the formating (with an additional %d\t) to printf -[17:12] I could also make it beautiful, LightBearer ;-) - Sometimes it is even necessary when you are lazy to debug further. But “debugging” is just another point for discussion and talk later on. -[17:13] please remind me the letter d means? the t is for TAB - I don’t know what it means…but it is for the number to appear -[17:14] so two d mean 2 numbers - The “\t” means TAB indeed. The “%d” is a sequence for inserting a variable, numeric variable. - and they have tabs after each of them - yes but i didn’t find it in my keyboard.. -[17:15] You can use different sequences depending on the type of your variable. Using “long” for example means using the sequence “%ld”! -[17:16] long mylongnum = 0.3l; - throgh: thank you. - printf(“%ld”, mylongnum); -[17:18] Everything is now in the forums. Will also post a preview for the “presentation”, a deeper course-material with official logo and more. :) -[17:19] Based on the table of contents, posted yesterday. - So for now I’ll have to leave, folks. :) - Please feel free to play with the sources. -[17:20] See you later! -[17:21] thanks throgh -[17:22] thanks a lot throgh, for your valuable help. - good bye - Thank you all! Giving back information. :) -[17:23] Until later! ;) -[17:36] It has been a great learning experience for me…it is as if -I had known this in another life… -[17:37] Emulatorman: what do you think? will I be able to code in C for hyperbk? - quiliro: yes, i don’t see it impossible while you are learning C -[17:38] C is not so hard as expected, just follow the tutorials and throgh guidance - Emulatorman: he is a patient guide -[17:39] perhaps learning emacs lisp helped me -[17:40] quiliro: i suggest learn C first, because it is the base to learn all programming languages -[17:42] heckyel: you have messages, type something to see them. - - heckyel: quiliro told me to tell you, (34 days ago): https://invidious.namazso.eu/watch?v=cUS_22_lDiM tiene solamente vídeo, no audio con Livie. - heckyel: quiliro told me to tell you, (34 days ago): Supongo que se podría escojer solamente los formatos que no son “video only” o “audio only” - heckyel: quiliro told me to tell you, (34 days ago): hypervideo -F me bota un mensaje…. ERROR: ‘tiene’ is not a valid URL. Set –default-search “ytsearch” (or run hypervideo “ytsearch:tiene” ) to search YouTube - heckyel: salome told me to tell you, (24 days ago): te espero pronto de regreso -[17:43]* heckyel is back -[18:24] oh, heckyel - bemvindo, heckyel - te extrañamo -[18:25] justamente cuando estamos aprendiendo - quiliro: :-) - ¿qué te pasó? ¿todo bien? - quiliro: mucho trabajo para poder susistir :s -[18:26] haciendo platita! bueno! - quiliro: :/ -[18:27] quiliro: bueno hoy estoy de regreso :-) -* quiliro llama la orquesta para festejar -[18:28] y eempieza la fiesta de bienvenida -[18:29] entra el primero…un grupo de samba cantando y bailando al ritmo de heckyel - luego entra un mariachi….tu tu turutututututu -[18:30] seguido por un grupo de chicha -*** Topic for #hyperbola: The official IRC channel of Hyperbola Project – https://www.hyperbola.info | Ops: coadde, Emulatorman, Gaming4JC, labelette | See “Hyperbola and anti-discrimination” in the social contract for IRC rules – https://wiki.hyperbola.info/social_contract | unregistered users: want voice? pm to any op *** #hyperbola: topic set by Emulatorman!~andre@gateway/tor-sasl/emulatorman, 2018-10-31 01:13:21 -[18:31]*** You need to be a channel operator of #hyperbola to do that -[18:32] Emulatorman: /topic HyperbolaBSD developer meeting here every day at 14h00 UTC-5 - If you consider it useful - quiliro: :-) - quiliro: veo que han estado haciendo reuniones -[18:33] sí, heckyel https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ - quiliro: sí, he leído algo de ese enlace :) - y están en el foro posts por throgh -[18:37] heckyel: ¿cómo te encuentras de salud? ¿y la familia? - quiliro: diría que al límite -[18:38] oh…requieres descanso entonces - quiliro: familiares de mi sobrino están con el virus SARS-CoV-2 - mi sobrina tuvo eso - quiliro: en cuanto a mi familia por ahora estamos bien - y mi sobrino también - pero no los veo -[18:39] quiliro: mismo acá, estamos lejos de los familiares de mi sobrino - este domingo nos reunimos los hermanos, los siete -[18:40] primera vez en 6 años - por mi cumpleaños, jaja - :-D -[18:41] es que mis hermanas viajan mucho - y yo no soy muy gregario - ayer cumplí 52 - estoy con sejuela -[18:42] heckyel: has tenido sejuela? -[18:44] quiliro: tal vez… pero nunca hago caso a lo que dicen acerca de mi - oh…se jue la juventud! - jaja -[18:45] heckyel: ^ - quiliro: sí se a lo que os referís con sejuela :P -[18:46] *sí sé - Emulatorman: se requiere el log de hoy? - si quiliro - ok - creo que es necesario por el tema de transparencia para aquellos que no pudieron -[18:47]*** Topic for #hyperbola: The official IRC channel of Hyperbola Project – https://www.hyperbola.info | Ops: coadde, Emulatorman, Gaming4JC, labelette | See “Hyperbola and anti-discrimination” in the social contract for IRC rules – https://wiki.hyperbola.info/social_contract | unregistered users: want voice? pm to any op *** #hyperbola: topic set by Emulatorman!~andre@gateway/tor-sasl/emulatorman, 2018-10-31 -01:13:21 - Emulatorman: crees conveniente poner el horario de nuestras reuniones en el topic? -[18:48] así nadie se retrasa - si, claro -[18:49] si se puede, obviamente - bueno, quiliro regreso en 1 hora -[18:51] por favor entonces, Emulatorman - no tengo privilegios -[18:56] quiliro: ¿cuál es el topic? -[19:21] el que te mandé antes, Emulatorman - Emulatorman: crees conveniente poner el horario de nuestras reuniones en el topic? - si quiliro -[19:22] para que el resto sepa poder participar - y entrar en el horario estipulado - mucha gente no sabe - y quiere participar - Emulatorman: /topic HyperbolaBSD developer meeting here every day at 14h00 UTC-5 -[19:23] no es así - except weekends (at least me) - monday-friday - eso - regreso en 1 hora como mencioné - Emulatorman: /topic HyperbolaBSD developer meeting here monday through friday at 14h00 UTC-5 -[19:24] Emulatorman: antes de salir por favor cambia el topic - ok - gracias -[19:26]*** Emulatorman (~andre@gateway/tor-sasl/emulatorman) has set the topic for #hyperbola: “The official IRC channel of Hyperbola Project – https://www.hyperbola.info | HyperbolaBSD Developer Meeting here Monday-Friday at 14h00 UTC-5 | Unregistered users: want voice? pm to any op”” -~~~~ -
- -
-_Click on me to see_ - -## Meet 7 - 2021-04-14 - -~~~~{.irc} -[13:27] Can we prepone tomorrow’s meeting by an hour or 2? -[13:50] infinite_recursi: yes, anyway our meeting here will be monday-friday at 14:00 UTC-5 (Ecuador zone) -[13:51] Welcome Shadow_Lobster, TripleZer0, didou_ - the meeting will begin soon -[13:52] thanks rachad :) - Emulatorman_: i invited these peoples to join us today - @Emulatorman_ : I ask to prepone it by an hour or 2. - To host it at 1300 or 1200hrs UTC-5 - quiliro ^ -[13:53] It’s currently 0030hrs at my place, so it’s difficult to stay awake. - i have no problem with that - quiliro: what do you think? -[13:59] wb didou_ - try to stay here :) -[14:00] Emulatorman_: can you give voice to TripleZer0 - ok - :P hi -[14:01] quiliro: About the meeting preponing thing? - hi TripleZer0 :) -[14:02] Hey 000 -[14:03] infinite_recursi: if everyone else is ok with it, I have no problem -[14:04] infinite_recursi: but that would mean I would have to skip lunch -[14:05] hello everyone - hi - was just finishing lunch - guys, i would let you know about some courses to take as reference or idea, and 2 tutorials for those from the team who would learn C for the HyperbolaBSD development -[14:06] https://www.udemy.com/course/c-programming-for-beginners-programming-in-c/ - https://www.udemy.com/course/developing-a-multithreaded-kernel-from-scratch/ - quiliro: prepone lunch just a bit please - https://www.udemy.com/course/linux-device-driver-programming-using-beaglebone-black/ - quiliro: It’s quite late here, that’s the issue. - https://www.udemy.com/course/complete-x86-assembly-language-120-practical-exercise/ - Emulatorman_: I found udemy sources advertized ubuntu, needed drm to see the videos and would not work at all without javascript -[14:07] quiliro: the another alternative is follow tutorials -[14:08] https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/index.htm - https://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/c-tutorial.html - yeah i agree with quiliro and so i did follow tutorials -Emulatorman_ and i will ways to learn more ;) -[14:09] A friend recommended the K&R textbook for C - can you share a link biovoid -[14:12] This is for contribution on hyperbk? - infinite_recursi: i have no issues to prepone the meeting 2 hours -[14:13] quiliro: i have invited Shadow_Lobster TripleZer0 and didou_ to join us today - I found several pdfs, but I have not been able to find whether they are legally hosted - welcome back throgh :) - https://archive.org/details/TheCProgrammingLanguageFirstEdition oh here’s archive.org -[14:15] Emulatorman_: can you give voice to throgh -[14:16] ok - Thanks, hello together. :) - Have to recover my password later. - hello, I am so sorry for being late. - welcome back LightBearer :) - Hello LightBearer. -[14:17] hello to all of you - rachad: nice that you invited these people - Lit up this irc channel, LightBearer - welcome to the free world: Shadow_Lobster TripleZer0 didou_ -[14:18] hi guys, coadde stills structuring our git repos while i'm adding throgh to the team database - thanks - Welcome to the clan, throgh - I hope you feel comfortable with us…please do not doubt to ask questions or make comments or answer questions - Though you were always in the clan! - Pun intended - the best way to generate something useful is to interact - Keep on rocking in the free world!!! -[14:19] Building free worlds. :) -[14:20] thanks for the links to tutorials Emulatorman_ and biovoid - hey throgh - welcome to the chatroom LightBearer …were you with throgh ? -[14:23] :=) no I was with Quiliro, he was helping me to use this channel -[14:24] :P - Emulatorman_: i can already see changes in the git with our names - LOL -[14:25] LightBearer: I was just trying to get off the blame of you not being here on time - You remember me doing that the same. :) Or I have to checkup bunch of older HDDs for profiles saved. Yeiks, tried too much with Hyperbola and many WMs. :P -[14:26] how do you pronounce your nick, throgh ? - I’d like to ask, what are the things left to do till v0.4? - during this course, things are changing for me too fast and I get dizzy and I don not know who is talking to me. :=) - rachad: yes, each member will have their personal git environment, so you could upload also your personal source codes there while it respect freedom (FSDG and Hyperbola Guidelines) -[14:27] can we already make changes and upload to our git Emulatorman_ -[14:28] We’ll have own branches or complete repos? - infinite_recursi: yes, we need a list of needed packaged to do, let me see the link in the forums -[14:30] I guess branches, full repo for each person would be too much! -[14:31] Plase, someone can tell the difference between clone and copy? - for those that do not know what git is for: it is a system to keep track of changes in text files edited by a group -[14:32] Quiliro and git hub? - wb Emulatorman_ - Welcome back! :) - ty -[14:33] github is a git hosting place…but it can be hosted in any server -[14:34] @LightBearer You mean in context for repositories? Besides Github is one possible hosting. There are others like notabug.org or Gitlab. You can also build own hosting-sites, local or within the global network. -[14:35] thank you quiliro and throgh - LightBearer: https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/what-is-git-and-how-to-use-it-c341b049ae61/ - throgh: check out https://sourcehut.org/ -[14:37] LightBearer: my link is a more profound description…you can keep it as a reference for understanding git later, when you see something you do not understand while you use it - Emulatorman: so what can be done to start helping if some us have played with C in the past and know what to do - LightBearer: it is not necesary to read my link now -[14:38] for example Shadow_Lobster and TripleZer0 already know programing how cna they help -* quiliro suggests LightBearer grab the link and put it in her purse -[14:39] Shadow_Lobster, TripleZer0 : ¿have you used git before? - i have - what we need? -[14:40] pull, push - I guess also: merge - commit, obviously - add - rachad: give some minutes, i’m going to looking for a list of TODO for packaging and develop our kernel - remove - yes I have used it too -[14:41] okay Emulatorman take your time - yea you get the dependency installed or whatever and you can do commands if you are into that - right? lol - clone and init, probably -[14:42] I am pretty familiar with git, but don’t know rebase very well - I use Emacs magit for dealing with git - oh! rebase - and the old faithful git log -[14:43] never used rebase or merge before - I am a newbie - rachad: it is the list of desired packaged for v0.4 -> https://ethercalc.openstack.org/3gquqie98gwu - rachad: i lost the forum thread about it - throgh: do you remember about that thread about v0.4? - infinite_recursi: ^ - rachad: ? -[14:44] now, i’m pushing the list of files developed for HyperbolaBSD - and the TODO - it is required to create a wiki Roadmap with details about it - the difference between clone and copy is that copying is not done with git or with its version control - clone will copy the contents -[14:45] infinite_recursi: you asked about hyperbola 0.4 and whats left to be done - check the list Emulatorman shared - I was readying the link you gave me and please tell me what is the meaning of demoing and snippet - rachad: yes, that I’ve seen - LightBearer: I guess clone will only copy a git repository - It was on forum a long time ago - but copy can copy a local file -[14:46] LightBearer: on my link? - git takes care of a hidden folder called ‘.git’ - If one copies that hidden folder too, I don’t think there should be a difference between clone and copy - yes the last link you gave me (a few mintues ago) -[14:47] As Emulatorman mentioned: There is spreadsheet with recommendations https://ethercalc.openstack.org/3gquqie98gwu and a forum thread with more insights: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=434 - LightBearer: demo-ing is an invented word for “making a demonstation” - ty throgh -[14:49] LightBearer: snippet is https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/snippet - it is a small piece of code, LightBearer - as in common language, it could be a parragraph -[14:50] for source code - guys, it is our current TODO for HyperbolaBSD kernel -> https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193762 - quiliro: thank you -[14:51] currently we are working on the /kern /sys and /uvm folders were are the pillar code of the kernel -[14:53] infinite_recursi proposed to make our meeting 2 hours earlier (it is 0h00 at their time zone)…anyone would care to accept or reject? -[14:54] So the thing to do is to create identical logic with own code for AGPLv3 licensing - I accept - i accept - Okay, accepted. :) -[14:56] if there are no rejections, we could make it 1 hour before the usual time for tomorrow and then decide tomorrow what time to do it the next days -[14:57] if it works well tomorrow, we could make it another hour earlier - this link won’t expire anymore -> https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193765 -[14:58] http://0x0.st/-TCC.txt - infinite_recursi: ^ -[15:00] thanks for the roadmap, rachad - I gotta sleep now. Goodbye folks - quiliro: if you prepone the meeting 1 hour i wont be here in the first 30 mint - Peace - thats why i agreed about 2 hours - good night infinite_recursi -[15:01] rachad: oh - How do we re-implement the same functionality for a file without it being interpreted as a derivative work? Seems like a grey area, unless the original file is not referenced at all (which is hard to prove) - nice you came infinite_recursi - Thanks quiliro :D - gn rachad -[15:02] rachad: but being 2 hours early might confuse people who did not come today -[15:04] i break my fasting at 1pm utc-5 quiliro - biovoid: the first is to change variable names…the next would be to use a different process - throgh: we should create a Roadmap article around of those 2 links http://0x0.st/-TCC.txt and https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193765 - quiliro ^ - cant leave the tasty food and be here :) - those links contain the TODO and the current list -[15:05] it is the high priority task in Hyperbola Project -[15:06] Emulatorman: I don’t know what to do with them… - quiliro: might that force us into a less-efficient process in some cases? I suppose that will take some creativity ;P - Emulatorman: can we do it the way it the old todo was here https://www.hyperbola.info/todo/java-removal/ - biovoid: what is your suggestion?? -[15:07] I don’t have a solution right now; this is just a concern of mine - *can we do it the way the old todo was there - maybe it will not be an issue -[15:08] quiliro: ok, don’t worry, throgh will handle it - biovoid: why it doesn’t need to be interpreted as derivative work ? - anyway, i suggest a pad to speed up it as fast as possible while our git structuring still under development -[15:09] rachad: maybe I am wrong, but depending on the original file's license it might not be allowed to change the license - if too similar -[15:10] guys, i opened a pad in riseup.net to begin our roadmap draft -> https://pad.riseup.net/p/hyperbolabsd_roadmap - throgh ^ -[15:11] okay biovoid we surelly need to know more about that - throgh is going to begin a draft of that based on those links ( https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193765 and http://0x0.st/-TCC.txt ) -[15:12] Emulatorman: we need javascript to see that :/ - we could help him to improve/fix grammar, etc - Emulatorman: can’t we just have a regular non-gui git repository to start? - Start working on the concurrent news-entry for today within the forums. You can read more about that here: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=525 - rachad: do you have another pad alternative? - not yet but i will research -[15:13] git clone hyperbolabsd.hypebola.info/sources.git - quiliro: coadde stills preparing our git structure, it takes time and i would speed up our draft - if you guys know some pad or something similar environment, please let me know -[15:14] why is it so complicated, Emulatorman ? - Emulatorman:to set up the git server -[15:15] coadde is who is handling it quiliro, ask him about it :P - i thought it was just including ssh public keys and starting an openssh-server -[15:16] At all: Remember that git is distributed, so it is possible to create own local infrastructure – not meant on another system – with small overhead. Perhaps Gogs or Gitea are good for a start. I think it is therefore possible pushing own branches back towards the project itself! And a merge should be also possible when ready. :) - quiliro: afaik, coadde want an environment where our team has access their own accounts and git repos environments. it takes time, because requires permissions, personal accounts, also our servers are made under sandboxes and paranoid security -[15:20] I do not know enough about git to merge or branch - yet - there are git repos only for mirrors, our structuring is so complex and decentralized because it was decided to avoid conflicts between commits. -[15:21] I am also clueless about how to check the files which need to be replaced and how to replace them…. - ok, Emulatorman -[15:23] I would like to learn about how how to replace these files… but I know coadde is very busy - Emulatorman: it would be very useful for you to show us one change you made and why -[15:24] welcome back LightBearer - LightBearer: welcome back - we had headaches some time ago when it was centralized in all-in-one access to git, so, we made personal user git accounts for personal tasks, commit tests, or testing, and a team account git access to share our commits there and the official ones (read-only) that will accept only the stable commits and checked without copyright violation - why did you leave? - LightBearer: ^ - nice, Emulatorman -[15:25] welcome back, LightBearer - quiliro: i could help to how to use git if you want -[15:26] Emulatorman: not that…I think someone else can do that…but only you can teach us about a change in the hyperbk code -[15:27] a diff would be great along with an explanation, Emulatorman - quiliro: coadde sent 2 links samples about that in the previous meetings - quiliro: but if you want i will request him again - let me check, which day? -[15:28] no…please do not distract him - don’t worry - if he is doing the server stuff, that is ok - i asked him right now - the idea is to show an example of what was changed -[15:29] why it was changed too - and what is the method of changing it - i will show you a basic C sample example of two different development with the same result to understand the method and way how to develop compatible code - so each of us could try our own changes -[15:31] okay thank you Emulatorman looking forward to that -[15:32] Shadow_Lobster, TripleZer0 do you have questions ? - I had a problem with my computer… Accordingly to the change of the hour of our meetings, I prefer to keep it as it has been all this time. At 2pm UTC-5 -[15:33] either LightBearer or rachad have to skip a meal….LOL - LightBearer: im fasting as well and this time is perfect for me this month - lol - Emulatorman: great! -[15:34] Just as annotation, here you are for the news based on the meeting today: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=525 -[15:38] nice job throgh -[15:39] I would rather have non-javascript links , but others might not - thank you throgh for your input, the udemy cources are just suggestions from Emulatorman and each one of us can take diffrent path or chooce other way to learn programing -[15:40] Emulatorman: will you give us the example you offered to show, please - books for example! - books, books, books -[15:41] For sure, but those are generic problems of our time: JavaScript … even needed for some so-called “webapplications”. Nothing personal meant, but some of them are right that big and even systems on their own to manage. Perhaps it would be also interesting to have those list back in the forum or Wiki at one point? Would be more static, of course! - do you know why we need a git server, LightBearer - ? -[15:42] javascript is a way to run software which you have not installed on your computer -[15:43] so the server owner controls your computer - yeah thats why its disabled for me but maybe we can have a list of trusted software to run in our browsers but that is yet another topic -[15:44] Yes, that’s the major issue and problem. But that is a big one! :) - Yes indeed, that was the problem that my poor computer had, and it has collapsed for a while…. - im ok just looking here and there - like the pad at riseup! -[15:45] javascript, LightBearer ? - and what do you think TripleZer0 - yes, quiliro about javascript on my poor computer. - wow -[15:46] she felt it was unjust for it too, LightBearer ? -[15:47] Minall suggested an introduction to C programming some days ago - my computer joint to my rights as a user. -[15:48] quiliro: here the 2 samples with similar results -> https://paste.debian.net/1193771/ - I only tried to hear my favorite radio program on my computer and it collapsed, with a lot of information that I did not requested. -[15:49] in short, both codes require you set a date and then print -[15:50] ok…I remember we saw those two the other day - but it wwould be nice to see a real hyperbk example - please, Emulatorman -[15:51] something you have already changed, if there is - in my case i used a switch condition with void return while coadde used an 2D array with char return - Emulatorman: what is the meaning of main in this programming. -[15:55] quiliro: check https://paste.debian.net/plain/1193765 the perfect sample to compare is kern/syscalls.c (from OpenBSD 6.6) and kern/syscl.c (from HyperbolaBSD) -[15:56] let me see a link page from OpenBSD 6.6 for that -[15:58] Emulatorman: kern/syscl.c is only the name on that link…no code -[15:59] DONE kern/syscl.c – kern/syscalls.conf -[16:01] kern/syscalls.c DONE kern/syscl.c – -[16:03] by the way, the git repo is at https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/ -[16:04] https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/sys/kern/syscalls.c?rev=1.207&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&only_with_tag=OPENBSD_6_6_BASE - https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git/plain/kern/syscl.c -[16:05] LightBearer: its the starting of the code - there are a bunch of repositories under hyperbolabsd/ on https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/ -[16:07] LightBearer: there are the main part of the program and the include-d parts (accessories) -[16:08] Emulatorman: On OpenBSD that file is automatically generated…why do we generate it manually? -[16:09] LightBearer: you can learn this by reading the number 4 page here https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/c_program_structure.htm - quiliro: it isn’t mandatory to develop a code manually or not, remember that our code is not based on them, it was made from scratch -[16:11] thank you all for the information. - quiliro: if you copy or base on their "script" to generate the code, then it is plagiarism - LightBearer: put your reading glasses on! - Iam already reading the information. - quiliro: lol -[16:12] quiliro: i just read how it works (algorithms), then i will create my own code to reproduce as new compatible code -[16:13] Emulatorman: did you type the algorithm first before writting this file? - in short the algorithm contains a group of diffents things with a number result - yes, that is the best way, but not mandatory under law - where is the algorithm for this file, Emulatorman - ? -[16:14] welcome back Glider_IRC_ -[16:15] quiliro: here it was the algorithm made by coadde -> https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/hyperbolabsd/algorithms.git/plain/kern_kern_system_call_c_code.txt - hey Glider_IRC_ - did not see you before -*** Users on #hyperbola: Glider_IRC_ LightBearer coadde @Emulatorman +throgh Shadow_Lobster raghavgururajan rachad Minall tech_exorcist quiliro SomeHacker dmc asdflkj_shell GoatAvenger ZANSIGO leomd_ bandali kisaja[m] Voitena[m] iortega[m] hook54321 nckx biovoid Redfoxmoon GNUtoo bcavileer urluck jschwart asdflkj elibrokeit lukeshu ggoes mai__ lablt -[16:16] hyperbola channel is full house now - it is a sample to create the new compatible code, some parts such as “never use” was added by coadde to suggest -us avoid use those methods used by OpenBSD to avoid plagiarism - the algoritm showed there was made by coadde as sample and base to create a new one from scratch -[16:18] ok, emulatorman…so we went from https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/sys/kern/syscalls.c?rev=1.207&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&only_with_tag=OPENBSD_6_6_BASE to https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/hyperbolabsd/algorithms.git/plain/kern_kern_system_call_c_code.txt to https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git/plain/kern/syscl.c - is that correct, Emulatorman ? -[16:19] we don’t require our team to create algorithm right now, because seems it isn’t mandatory, however we require never use the OpenBSD code as base to create a code, because it will become a fork, not a new code. To create a new code, it is required to understand the logic and functionality of the origin code, and then make a new code from scratch -[16:21] the algorithm describes the logic and functionality of the original code or does it compose the process directly? -[16:22] and the logic and functionality is just the obvious result - quiliro: not exactly, we read kern/syscalls.c to see how it works, and we paid attention in that case that it is just a C code where contains a group of differents things (system calls) with a specific number. So we saw that they used a char array pointer with that group, so we decided create our new one by using a different expression of idea such as using constants - Yes, often described of one “recipe for cooking”. The famous example is to make a hardboiled eggs: https://image.slidesharecdn.com/chapter2representationofalgorithms-120124083655-phpapp02/95/chapter-2-representation-of-algorithms-14-728.jpg?cb=1327395027 -[16:23] so both code are differents ways of expression of idea, but in fact both are using a group of different system call with a specific and required number to call different tasks in the system -[16:24] in that case it isn’t a fork, it is a new compatible code, but in this case you need adapt **entire** source code on the new compatible code by alingining all code files to work with the new code - ok…I get the general idea…but it would be nice for you to describe it in more detail in this specific case -[16:25] Emulatorman: what is a system call’ - ? -[16:26] quiliro: system call is a group of different tasks asigned for the kernel to handle when a specific task is required such as handle time, memory, etc -[16:27] so some application could require some thing to the kernel, then it will require by sending a system call number to the kernel to give more memory, or adjust the time, etc, so the kernel will receive it and then will give the requested task to the application - it is an basic example how to work kernel with system calls -[16:29] a kernel is required to wait for “calls” from around the system, so it is the important part of a kernel. when you create a new compatible code, it makes incompatible with OpenBSD, so ports is so important there. eg. if you want to add Iceweasel-UXP for HyperbolaBSD, you need “adapt” the system calls inside the code to make work correctly in the future HyperbolaBSD - i mean the Iceweasel-UXP’s source code -[16:30] so it is a response and example to understand that HyperbolaBSD won’t be compatible with OpenBSD or any BSD descendant system, because we are implementing new compatible code, by making it a future new OS -[16:31] Welcome back, rachad. :) -[16:32] so when HyperbolaBSD will be ready to be used, we need go to a “special” phase where we will need port all of our packages or at least request their developers (eg. current Emacs dev) to port Emacs for HyperbolaBSD, port vim for HyperbolaBSD, etc -[16:33] that is the difference between a new compatible code and a fork -[16:34] This all helps address the concern I mentioned earlier. I feel some of it could get muddled easily though, if not careful - there are 2 methods to make forks, the first one is to make an adaption such as “remove nonfree things” or “implement improvements”, but it could keep compatible, then the another fork is known as “hard-forking” that is used as base or point of start to begin a develop a new/future software -[16:36] HyperbolaBSD used the OpenBSD-6.6 as “base” to begin develop a new future OS, in the same manner than OpenBSD made by using NetBSD as base for their initial version around 90’s -[16:37] thank you throgh i went afk for a bit -* rachad is back -[16:38] our goal here is develop GPLed code to implement future GPLed features and code, also continue with our own code under GPLed. i explained that in the interview at It’s FOSS -> https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/ - in short, create a GPLed BSD descendant system -[16:39] Emulatorman: Thank you for your explanation of what a system call is. -[16:40] Emulatorman: would you please describe in more detail what each part of that example code does? Imagine I am 5 years old for making a very simple explanation. -[16:44] quiliro: i’m not a C teacher lol, but in short OpenBSD’s code is using an array pointer with char data type where was added a complex group of different tasks (system calls) with a specific number -[16:46] you should at least understand arrays, pointers and data types to understand the syntax there, but summarizing it, it contains a group of different tasks with assigned number for a specific task requested from an input device “keyboard” or applications -[16:47] quiliro: i think this meeting was verry informative but it took much more time then the previous ones - so we have decided use a macro of definitions as new compatible code. -[16:48] thank you Emulatorman for all this nice explanation - for that you should understand macros, constants and pre-processor in C -[16:49] I imagine we are to follow OpenBSD’s style guide? -[16:51] biovoid: yes, we have a style based on them -> https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:hyperbolabsd_coding_style_guidelines - oh wonderful -[16:52] this will be great for all of us to understand how a system work from scratch -[16:55] i think today meeting was great thank you all for your time - good night didou_ :) - lol -* rachad is going afk… -[16:57] nice to have you rachad -[16:59] I would like to propose that tomorrow someone give an introduction to C language -[17:00] who would like to do this? -[17:02] yes quiliro, I think it is such a good idea. - we do need many instructors, so there is no need to fight for this position -* rachad is back! -[17:03] I suggest Throgh, could do it. He has spirit of a very good teacher. - oh…nice - would you do that for us tomorrow, throgh ? -[17:05] i think, we should get some volunteer to create C essential tutorials for our wiki and markdown for those who hate javascript - I have previously been a mentor for a coding camp (bt not for C). I am not quite qualified to lead a training, but I hope to be a resource to help answer questions - neat, biovoid - thank you -[17:06] welcome back throgh - biovoid: it would be great that you could check the code and try to explain it - biovoid: any volunteer is welcome here, instructors or mentors for a coding such as C are high priority for free software project such as HyperbolaBSD to bring more volunteers and future students to our team - hey throgh -[17:07] throgh_: ^ - did you see my message for you? -[17:08] Emulatorman: I think throgh_ is unvoiced -[17:09] done - what is unvoiced? - Thanks! :) -[17:10] @LightBearer: The concept to grant people / accounts / nicknames the right to write or better to speak. A protection for spam and unwanted participants in some places. - LightBearer: it is when you are mutted in the chatroom - thank you. -[17:11] throgh_: would you give us a little introduction to C tomorrow? - throgh, do you agree to be our instructor tomorrow about the C language? - Yes, I think doing some kind of introduction would be interesting. But tomorrow is a little short in time. So I would propose the question first: How many of you feel prepared getting deeper into the “rabbit-hole”? I know there are people having experiences. :) -[17:12] I think it is good to have all at one level to start. Of course as in every class: There are differences. No problem, but it would be good having all on board. -[17:13] When I define “carl”, what do you think? “int carl = 5” ;) - some people have left because the meeting started more than 3 hours ago - im just starting with C tbh -[17:14] what is tbh? - to be honest - @quiliro: Yeah for sure. Therefore only a little check, not representative in general. - thank you - ;) -[17:15] carl is an integer, a number without decimals - throgh_: what is your question - int = integer - @rachad: The question is … everybody knows what this is? This was a little question from my teacher back in the days with Java. :D - even if it sounds like a string, a person’s name ;-) -[17:17] I think str is string of characters - and char is a single character - …. 5- 4- 3- 2- 1- 0 1 2 3 4 5 ….. << these are integers - yes quiliro - Yeah, but a variable-name with value in first place. Sorry, don’t want to be rude. Just to have some impression: Programming cannot be learned throughout learning syntax and commands. It’s more a concept about logic and having books beside you. Emulatorman and coadde define their own data-structures way beyond. But for the first start giving more insights how to get this up. -[17:18] and bool is a binary: true or false, 0 or 1 -[17:19] i think we should start by reading this tutorial https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/index.htm - it will help us begin our journee -[17:20] Yes, boolean: Just two states and values. For the first impression imagine this: A program is an algorithm done in commands. I think this was talked about earlier in the chat! Learning to understand algorithms is one part, the other to understand the syntax of C. -[17:21] Would be interesting what kind of systems are in usage for now? Some of us use Hyperbola. Debian I think, also! Something else? -[17:22] The question therefore: Installing development-environments to have you being curious building the own software. ;) -[17:24] But I see where we could start. Give me time to prepare something, because I think there would be also learning-material needed. Somebody proposals where to upload that? -[17:26] if you can put them in hyperbola wiki that would be more than just great - If it is not possible on hyperbola.info, I can host at asle.ec -[17:27] rachad: yes! -[17:29] good idea quiliro - it was rachad’s idea - Well, a course to prepare needs some time. Don’t want to take too much for everybody, as this field is wide. Yes, I can do something on the Wiki also, but therefore I need to work with the syntax of formatting. :) - it was our idea quiliro :) - :-) -[17:30] So while working on that: Do you have a complete overview for all needed toolsets? - throgh_: no presure…nothing fancy needed - the important thing is that some people want to learn and others want to teach - Of course not that fancy. :) But keeping an eye towards all of us being curious. :D -[17:31] we need to ask Emulatorman about toolsets - yes the goal here is to help us learn as fast as we can to then get hyperbolabsd a push in the right direction - Okay, perhaps we divide the course-materials in different parts? So everyone can do something. :) What do you think about that? -[17:32] Peraps even help us together. Don’t know if this fits, but to get this faster! - *Perhaps - yeah whats in your head throgh_ -[17:33] Well, I’d come up with an agenda learning C as proposal and present this in the forum first. Everyone can read this and after that we can decide what to do of this? -[17:34] throgh_: btw, welcome to the team! -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/developers/#throgh and https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#throgh - And by “learning C” I also think of “What is exactly the difference for CPUs … the basics” -[17:35] @Emulatorman: Thanks! :) - _throgh: i’m sending your ssh public key to coadde - Okay. -[17:36] welcome to the team, throgh_ ! - @quiliro: Thank you! -[17:37] does a ssh public key mean that it is a key to a silent room full of people? -[17:38] haha - trying to make jokes like RMS -[17:39] lol - but he is better - he can even make jokes in spanish - understanding a joke in a foreign language means mastery of that language -[17:40] but making a joke in a foreign language is beyond mastery - throgh_: could you send again your key, seems you are offline in tox - i forgot download it - i think its time for me to go sleep - s|,|?| -[17:41] thank you quiliro throgh_ Emulatorman and everyone else for your inputs and ideas - good night rachad and thanks for your input - see you all tomorrow - it would not be the same here without you here, rachad - Good night, rachad. -[17:42] So building an agenda, right now. - rachad: you’re welcome, have a gn -[17:43] have a good night s sleep. (do not know where the apostrophe key is= - night’s - haha - Good night, LightBearer! :) - in among 3 hours will be night -[17:44] thank you very much for being part of our team, throgh_ and biovoid -*** Users on #hyperbola: bzp pekman +throgh_ Glider_IRC_ dmc -LightBearer coadde @Emulatorman raghavgururajan quiliro SomeHacker -asdflkj_shell GoatAvenger ZANSIGO leomd_ bandali kisaja[m] -Voitena[m] iortega[m] hook54321 nckx biovoid Redfoxmoon GNUtoo -bcavileer urluck jschwart asdflkj elibrokeit lukeshu ggoes mai__ lablt - @quiliro: Thanks for being part of this! :) -[17:45] throgh_: :-) -[17:46] Emulatorman, coadde without you this project would not have -been possible…thank you very very much - yes, you are very welcome here to this group! -[17:48] quiliro: coadded is developing a script to create/delete/list git repos for each member in their personal git accounts - quiliro: so it will ease the way to do those complex git tasks - quiliro: at least if any of you would push personal free software source codes, not just from Hyperbola - So trying to copy some ideas here. -[17:49] 1. The computer: A secret book? - 1.1 The elementary parts of computing - 1.2 Interfaces, but for what? - 1.3 Communication is the key - 1.4 And in the end: There is the platform ruling all - Chapter 1 - Chapter 2 - 2. What about programming? - 2.1 Recipes of the algorithm - 2.2 Parts of programming-language (commands, variables and syntax) - And Chapter 3 - 3. So what about the C? - 3.1 Introduction and basics - 3.2 The syntax: Can be rude, but fair - 3.3 Variables and needed syntax - 3.4 Functions and procedures - 3.5 How is that about data-structures? (Arrays and more) - 3.6 What do you think about file-handles? - 3.7 And now for something completely different: Keeping all together -[17:50] Done fast for some structure as proposal. Will post that if you think it is okay! -[17:52] Narf, changed 3.3 for: Variables, someone’s there for help? -[17:56] Emulatorman: nice, coadde is great - throgh_: you are very fast, I saw how much you write in the forum -[17:57] why “someone’s here to help”, throgh_ ? because variables help? - yes, I think you have a very good method to teach. - Yes, and the keep it structured. - everything helps, no? -[17:58] LightBearer: I agree - Here you are: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=526 - simple, easy and clear. -[17:59] With a slight “Monty Python”-style getting that a little smile. ;) - nice quote, throgh_ “Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to - make you commit injustices” -[18:00] ;) A little message for all the people struggling. Just to keep in mind: Not all-time so easy, but can be with having the discussion and help each other. - <- idealist -[18:01] yes I have already read the foot note -[18:02] I have to go, the sun has already gone and I have to put water to my plants. good bye everyone. see you tomorrow. -[18:03] Goodbye, LightBearer! :) -[18:04] So done edit for the news. - https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?pid=2913#p2913 -[18:05] the lightbearer is taking advange of the blackout! jaja -[18:07] I guess she meant the night, not the blackout - and jaja in spanish is haha in english -[18:09] thank you very much for your work, throgh_ -[18:10] so publishing the log is not necessary any more? -[18:11] A pleasure to help. Proposal: As long as the guidance is not fully established I’d say the log should be saved. - So the people can do own research. After that: Guidance is up to all of us and getting more into interest and self-engagement. -[18:12] Well it is not that Emulatorman, coadde and others can take us by hand in the hand. ;) And we have not even talked about programming-methods like agile development for example. Not: I’m not a SCRUM-master, but there are different approaches to do it! -[18:13] Wide fields! :D -[18:20] So, will have to leave now: Will come a little bit later tomorrow as I have to rebuild some damn display from one X200 to another. - Literally screwing it “up”. ;) -[18:21] See you all later. *wave* -[18:22] throgh_: \o -~~~~ -
- -
-_Click on me to see_ - -## Meet 6 - 2021-04-13 - -~~~~{.irc} -[14:05]<@quiliro> Welcome everyone to our 6th meeting (#5) for the HyperbolaBSD development team. -[14:07] hi guys - Hello all - Hello together! -[14:08]<@quiliro> There are logs to the previous sessions at https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ until we have a well made document which a volunteer is constructing. - Welcome back, rachad. -[14:09] thank you throgh -<@quiliro> A lot of volunteers have been included in the team. -[14:10]<@quiliro> nice to see you again biovoid -[14:11]<@quiliro> Emulatorman_: It would be nice to have one page for all members with link to each member at -https://www.hyperbola.info/members -[14:12] Hola a todos - :D - hola LuxFer -<@quiliro> hey LuxFer -[14:13] Hej LuxFer! :) -[14:15] How are they doing? -[14:17] welcome back LightBearer - Hello - i think we are all here! -<@quiliro> hello LightBearer -[14:18] Hi LightBearer - Hello. - to all of you guys -[14:19] and gals -[14:20]<@quiliro> On the main page there are the members of the various groups -<@quiliro> * Founders -<@quiliro> * Developers -<@quiliro> * Artists -<@quiliro> * Security Team -<@quiliro> * Support Staff -<@quiliro> * Members Fellows -<@quiliro> https://www.hyperbola.info -[14:22]<@quiliro> Emulatorman_ coadde : can we start… are a little late -[14:23]<@quiliro> for the people that don’t know them, these are the main developers along with Megver83 -<@quiliro> they will guide us in this dungeon -<@quiliro> to fight the kernel monsters and get to the core -[14:24] i think members groups are well done because it make more organized, i mean some users could ask some specific things for specific areas, merge them makes so confusing from my point of view -<@quiliro> A FREE CORE -[14:25] but well, i saw some point of views from sagaracharya https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?pid=2899#p2899 who doesn’t understand me that i have no enough time to handle all at the same time -[14:26] That’s the point where I come in to help here. :) As said: I'll take my notes here for having transparency. It is impossible to do all of this with three people. Too much and -therefore help! :) -[14:27] yes, i didn’t drive the people who want to contribute away from hyperbola, some people seems doesn’t understand that we are humans, with limit time and energy to do things. -[14:29] also i’m developer, communication/documentation is not my best, for that reason i considered the quiliro’s idea so good to improve “communication” and “transparency”, also to help our development -[14:31] we will all contribute the best we can in this project, indeed this idea was verry good from quiliro but we will develope it help maintain it to share knowledge and help mov ething fast. -[14:32] rachad I do not understand: mov ething fast… please explain it for me - A good point as the project and the idea are so important, but the same is for the people behind. -[14:33] *move things fast - sorry a typing error - rachad, thanks a lot -[14:34]<@quiliro> the post says: "We lack of members who could make our announcements, news and also we need man power who could helping to bring more volunteers to increase our -<@quiliro> team and speed up the development of HyperbolaBSD and Milky Way v0.4." -<@quiliro> so that means that anyone can help, regardless how much knowledge they have or what area is their strength -[14:35]<@quiliro> I called people here because I invited Emulatorman_ to our group to talk to them -<@quiliro> but most people here are not from our group… -<@quiliro> it is ok for me - your welcome LightBearer, thank you for pointing that out i know its already hard for you guys to speak english with mistakes it would be impossible :) -[14:36] yes, originally these meetings were planned to arrive volunteers from ecuadorian universities and bring them to a future dev team to speed up the HyperbolaBSD development, where we didn’t receive volunteers from our official announcement from a long time -<@quiliro> but if you mind it being here, we can go back to #hyperbola for the next meetings - i think that is the goal -[14:37]<@quiliro> I trust I can find more volunteers for the next few months -<@quiliro> it is just too bureaucratic here - rachad, English is my second languaje and are some words I do not understand, I think a question never is silly. -<@quiliro> there must be an agreement with each university - Ah I get it. So I think it is time for me giving back a "Sorry". If this was my personal misunderstanding, this was my fault. :( Sorry, guys: I had this no longer in mind as I just had only the thought to give information for PKGBUILD, optimizations and hope for help. -[14:38] of cource LightBearer your welcome to ask and correct me anytime :) - rachad :) - i arrived here to help the future volunteers got from ASLE for HyperbolaBSD, but the goal is continue in #hyperbola when those volunteers understand our point of views and philosophy -[14:39] quiliro: i think your right maybe we should move this meeting into #hyperbola -[14:40] at the same time but in the main channel to make more transparent for everyone -[14:41]<@quiliro> LuxFer: puedes encontrar el log de ayer en https://www.asle.ec/hyperbolabsd-meeting-5/ -<@quiliro> LuxFer: busca git para aprender sobre git -[14:42]<@quiliro> LuxFer: hay un hipervínculo a un manual que mandó Emulatorman_ -[14:43] I’ll take this as central point, Emulatorman. :) May I propose to have a link or some kind of news-entry? Linking the talks, at the frontpage. Besides I’ll take a later view on how far you have reached: So do you have some concurrent plan for today? Essentials for C? Git-handling? Repositories in general? Or algorithms for the kernel itself? Sorry, too curious. -[14:44]<@quiliro> so, I could call people and when they come here I will send them to #hyperbola for our daily meetings - Listo, muchas gracias quiliro - okay quiliro good idea - Cannot post anything in hyperbola - channel -[14:45] Shows “cannot send to nick/channel” - throgh: i think you could create a thread in our forums with details about all of those meetings for better transparency. i had plans to do it, but for lacking of time i couldn’t do as fast as soon possible -<@quiliro> temp_infini8: send a private message to any op of that channel - temp_infini8 you need to have a registered account at freenode -[14:46]<@quiliro> I have someone making a summary for tomorrow of our meetings - Can we continue this meet here? Tomorrow we can move there -<@quiliro> rachad: you can gett voice if the operator authorizes -[14:47] yes temp_infini8 tomorrow meeting will be there - throgh: also we need create a detailed roadmap for HyperbolaBSD, maybe a pad is the best idea or git. coadde is currently structuring a new git environment to our team begin contribute with new commits there, but it will take time, maybe tomorrow will be available, coadde is working around 20 hours for the new structuring - i know quiliro! -[14:48] throgh: the current TODO based on Arch doesn’t work for the new roadmap, because it requires a database with packages already pushed in repos, and we haven’t those packages - thank you coadde for all of this work :) -[14:49]<@quiliro> ok…then I will explain some things about git, if you do not mind -<@quiliro> until it is ready -[14:53]<@quiliro> to make it clear, today we stay in this channel and tomorrow we meet in #hyperbola -[14:54]<@quiliro> continuing with git -<@quiliro> https://www.udemy.com/course/git-complete/ is the link that -Emulatorman_ sent yesterday -[14:55]<@quiliro> but I cannot access it without javascript -<@quiliro> that crap is everywhere -[14:56]<@quiliro> throgh: I wish you had come 3 days earlier for compiling the information on the logs -[14:57]<@quiliro> I have a translator volunteer do it before making the translation -<@quiliro> but it is difficult for them to understand -<@quiliro> nevertheless it is good that he learns about freedom haha -[14:59]<@quiliro> can someone here describe why they think coadde is constructing the git infrastructure and why it is important for the project? -<@quiliro> it is important to see what people think -<@quiliro> LuxFer, LightBearer -<@quiliro> biovoid…. -[15:00]<@quiliro> what I am trying to say is that it is important to have git -[15:01]<@quiliro> and that git allows us to work in a group -<@quiliro> to develop this new operating system - quiliro if i understand well coadde will give each of us a git that can only be changed by the one who owns it -<@quiliro> or rather, to develop the parts that do not allow us to have a free operating system - just like what github is about -[15:02]<@quiliro> excelent - SCM (git, etc) is important for keeping work organized, both for individual development and merging that work back into the shared branch - from new codes will be add to hyperbolabsd - *from there - Iam not expert like you. I understand that coadde is working in a infraestructure where our work will be registered, every single change. -[15:03]<@quiliro> how would you explain it to someone who knows nothing about software? -<@quiliro> LightBearer: great! very simple…what else - quiliro: I am the one who knows nothing about it - :) -[15:04]<@quiliro> biovoid: nice - Lux Fer tell it in english, we are going to help you, the idea is to know what do you think about this matter -[15:05] Sidenote as I have some “experiences” with SVN in the company-way: I could tell you all some strange stories of people trying to versioning their Office-documents with this, seeing this as some kind “storage”. So all in all: Repository the name, SCM the way to go. Having graphics and documents into this? Okay, but better to keep an eye onto this for managing the code. - LuxFer: not english, i tried to say spanish -<@quiliro> there is a little more to git and other versioning software…they allow working together as biovid said - Git is the means by which we will communicate with the changes to finally make them in HyperBola? -[15:06]<@quiliro> LuxFer: yes :-) -<@quiliro> throgh: yes, using git for non-text is not a good idea -[15:07]<@quiliro> not even libreoffice documents make good use of git - Simply put, Git is our “database”? -[15:08]<@quiliro> but plain-text documents work fine or even accounting -<@quiliro> it could be considered as such, LuxFer -[15:09]<@quiliro> I do not know the internals of git -<@quiliro> but we can have a document history -<@quiliro> we can see who made what changes and when -<@quiliro> each can have their own version and we can combine our versions -[15:10]<@quiliro> to make a “master” version -<@quiliro> and we can manage conflicting versions easily -<@quiliro> we just choose which changes go into the main repository and which don't -[15:11] It could be taken into account, only that obviously all versions have to be governed by the same path, otherwise that would be a big fuss -<@quiliro> we can use considerations based on search terms or author or date - to be honest i know many wants to help in there free time as i do, but we dont know how or what to start with right now i did share my public ssh key with Emulatorman_ and i have an idea how the git will be but i hope wen that happen we will start a baby steps that help us learn to then share with the community -[15:12]<@quiliro> LuxFer: each user governs their version and you can incorporate changes from other people’s versions -<@quiliro> rachad: did you read the link about git? -[15:13]<@quiliro> rachad: have you used git? - yes its a cource -<@quiliro> ? - We work like a community. Everyone makes his/her own contribution. - Can I create Git bare repository for markdown files?, what name can I add? and in what group can I leave it? -[15:15] coadde: will markdown files be a group work ? - welcome back LuxFer - The internet - Thanks rachad - rachad: since our current git repos are in different groups now (see https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/) i suppose coadde mean about create a new section for that git repo -[15:16] eg. hyperbolabsd for those git repos focused on HyperbolaBSD - yes a new tab or bare for that section -[15:17] i think the section could be called as "documentation" and add different repos there such as "howto" "roadmap" "todo", etc - okay that will do Emulatorman_ - so those documentations could be helped and contributed for those users who hate javascript and i can’t contribute in wiki for those reasons -[15:18] also, we could backup wiki source there in a new git repo called “wiki” - it is useful for future accidents and crashes inside doku (eg. a upgrading) -[15:19] but again, we need volunteers for that -<@quiliro> haha, that is me - your speaking to those volunteers Emulatorman_ :) -[15:20] and im sure more will join wen we get used to what we have to do and how we can help it will be easy from there - I’m still lost hehe, I still hope I can with all this - LuxFer: the git is were we will work and contribute -<@quiliro> LuxFer: you will learn, if you persist - also again, the next meeting should be in #hyperbola because there are a lot of users from Hyperbola who would join in our team right now, and i wouldn’t put excessive tasks to throgh -[15:21] maybe it should be organized on that way, in fact the main thread here is Hyperbola - yes Emulatorman_ -[15:23] we could use mumble as well wen we start working as a team -[15:24] and what about tox? we have an account there with our pictures. -[15:25]<@quiliro> It would be great that all communication could be interconnected - yes, but mumble has better sound quality and doesn't require internet speed to use - well groups in old tox clients cant be saved after disconnecting as well - but it should be announced in #hyperbola please -[15:26] yes i use mumble for my work and it is an excellent resource. - not resource, tool -[15:27]<@quiliro> The only problem with mumble is that it is not encrypted -<@quiliro> I guess it could be encrypted with tor - but keep tox for private chat LightBearer its a great way of sharing data in a secure way -[15:28]<@quiliro> but mumble might not work as well with tor - rachad: thank you for the information. -[15:29] your welcome dear - btw, we have a own mumble server available for that -[15:31] address: hyperbola.info - port: 64738 - throgh ^ -<@quiliro> Emulatorman_: I think we should plan what we cover on our daily meetings -[15:32]<@quiliro> does anyone have any suggestions ? -<@quiliro> for our plan for tuesday, wednesday, thursday and friday - yes, i think the next meeting should go to #hyperbola since we have already our team to begin the first part of the development -[15:33] could you save the log of the daily meeting there quiliro? - *meetings -<@quiliro> sure, at asle.ec ? - yes - also we should create a git repo for that - Is this one URL we could share for the community at the forums? Just to ask for: A mumble-server is interesting for internal communication. -<@quiliro> the best would be to make a git repo - and save it for community -[15:34]<@quiliro> which url, throgh ? - the mumble server quiliro -[15:35]<@quiliro> we need a better format for logs - I have to go now. I’d like to contribute to Hyperbola. - Please add me as one of members. I’d like to contribute as Security Team and Developer -<@quiliro> Emulatorman_: how will we deal with voicing people at #hyperbola -<@quiliro> as in the case of temp_infini8 - Thumbs up, temp_infini8! -[15:36]<@quiliro> temp_infini8: you need to send your data to Emulatorman_ - I’ll give the details to throgh. We have been chatting a bit if it is ok to the team? -<@quiliro> in the format others have sent - Yes, I will -<@quiliro> ok -[15:37]<@quiliro> you also have to create a ssh keypair -<@quiliro> and send that too - So I send it to throgh? quiliro -<@quiliro> encrypted -<@quiliro> you can send it via tox - no temp_infini8 send it to Emulatorman_ -<@quiliro> have you used tox? -<@quiliro> temp_infini8: it is important that you learn to use the tools -[15:38] ok quiliro, I’ll learn them - yes - I have used tox -<@quiliro> if you need help, do not doubt to ask - sure quiliro , thanks - muy bien hermanos! :D - Yeah, the format rachad sent. Look onto the team-site therefore. Ah, and perhaps we can make a collection for interesting insights and books for development in the forums. Sort out some thoughts about that! -[15:39] Have a good night! *wave* - see you tomorrow in #hyperbola temp_infini8 o/ -<@quiliro> it is better if you ask on the chatroom than in a private -message in order to make better use of both of our times - I feel great to enter the Hyperbola team. -<@quiliro> temp_infini8: we have a lot of patience…so go ahead and ask -<@quiliro> we feel great that you enter too, temp_infini8 -[15:40] I have to go now, unfortunately. -<@quiliro> throgh: \o -<@quiliro> thanks for comming throgh - throgh chao -[15:41] chao temp_infi8 -[15:42] alright i think we can continue tomorrow - in #hyperbola at same hour -<@quiliro> thanks everyone for comming - 2pm utc-5 -[15:43] Ah, I’ll stay here, people. :D Just to great temp_infini8! -<@quiliro> yes, every workday -<@quiliro> throgh: he left - :) -[15:44]<@quiliro> lets wrap it up -<@quiliro> it was a great meeting … met new great people -[15:45] yes, the next meeting will be in #hyperbola, we reached our goal here by helping the new users with the basic concepts of free software and licences. now, we need merge them in our community through our official irc channel and forums, that is the way - Thumbs up: Take the major points with me and make another thread about that to inform the concurrent members. -[15:46] you do that throgh if you can in the forum -[15:47] Emulatorman_: can we share the mumble server somewere in the web-site or we keep it for members wen they join ? in short, HyperbolaBSD is planned to be released in 2024 as stable, so we have enough time for 2021, 2022 and 2023 to make the alpha and beta versions - rachad: yes of course -[15:48] maybe the wiki, what do you think? - To summarize the communication-platforms? Great idea. -[15:49] https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=:en:start#irc_channels - we could put about mumble below the irc channels section - Absolutely fine from my point, what do the others think about it? -[15:50] it says -> “The official Hyperbola channel is #hyperbola, hosted on Freenode.” what should we add there for mumble below? -[15:54] IRC Channels & Live Chat - or - Live Chat and IRC Channels -[15:55] bellow we add the mumble server! -[15:56] im verry sleepy but tomorrow i will find ideas - ok -[15:57] good night peoples - this was a great meeting o/ - good night to you - have a gn -~~~~ -
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-_Click on me to see_ - -## Meet 5 - 2021-04-12 - -~~~~{.irc} -[13:51] Emulatorman: check tox -[13:52] hello everyone ! - ok -[13:54]<@quiliro> hello rachad -<@quiliro> nice to see you here again -[13:55]*** Users on #asle: Megver83 rachad xuxx_ coadde Emulatorman janaxpachapuka @quiliro Minall @torshido void09 biovoid - thank you quiliro -<@quiliro> welcome to our meeting everyone -<@quiliro> thank you for comming - quiliro: Megver83 is one of our Hyperbola members and Parabola active packager and he will join in our HyperbolaBSD dev team -[13:56] quiliro: so i let him know to join in our meeting too -<@quiliro> welcome Megver83 …. thank you very much for comming -<@quiliro> thank you for inviting him, Emulatorman -[13:57] yw - btw, what about lightbearer? is she online? -[13:58] i didn’t see her online here -[13:59]<@quiliro> apparently not -[14:00] hola ya estoy aquí… estoy hecha un revoltijo, no encuentro mis archivos en esta compu denme un rato -<@quiliro> without the lightbearer we are in the dark! LOL -<@quiliro> be it the light! - dark is my computer, I do not find my files. -<@quiliro> nice to see you LightBearer -<@quiliro> we were already missing youu -[14:01] LightBearer: please, send us your profile to add to our support staff team -[14:02] you can use the quiliro’s profile as sample -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#quiliro -[14:05] quiliro: what about profeluchito? is he available for today? -[14:17] Hi everyone! just arrived, I was in class -[14:18] hi Megver83 welcome -[14:19]* Minall is watching from above -* quiliro was helping LightBearer with profile -[14:20]<@quiliro> do you remember the nick of profeluchito’s student? -[14:22] quiliro: he is LuxFer -[14:23] Emulatorman: I have alredy sent you my profile, check it out - ok -[14:25]<@quiliro> I have his phone number but it is wrong -<@quiliro> I will try to contact profeluchito -[14:27] what is the next step, after sending you my public key and my profile? - Emulatorman: ? -<@quiliro> I think it is the problem with my phone operator -[14:29]<@quiliro> luxfer is about to connect -<@quiliro> I hope he speaks english -[14:30] LightBearer: https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#LightBearer - LightBearer: welcome to the team - Hola, buenas tardes -<@quiliro> profeluchito does not speak english - Disculpen la tardanza… -[14:31]<@quiliro> hola LuxFer, bienvenido….estamos hablando en inglés en este momento - Oh so sorry -<@quiliro> thank you very much for changing the language, LuxFer - Hi to everyone -[14:32]<@quiliro> welcome to the team - hola LuxFer :) - Jajaja thanks -<@quiliro> today we handing out team certifications - Hola rachad :) - LuxFer: do you have plans to join the HyperbolaBSD dev team? i mean it because i’m adding the profiles and coadde is creating the @hyperbola.info email accounts and git access -<@quiliro> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#LightBearer -[14:33]<@quiliro> for example for anacleta/lightbearer -<@quiliro> she has changed personality -[14:34]<@quiliro> but for us, it is the same person - in the begining it sound like I have a personality disorder - LOL - :D -<@quiliro> LOL -[14:35] what does it mean you changed personality -[14:36] LightBearer change personality! :o -<@quiliro> rachad: apparently it is the same personality with a different nick - in the beginning it appeared LightBearer and then I wrote Lightbearer, as you can see the B is no capital anymore - well guys, i’m going to let you know about our progress here. coadde made a modification in our git page (cgit) to organize our official repos and user ones -[14:37] Emulatorman yeah! I wanna join to the team -<@quiliro> perhaps she wanted to play hide and seek - https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/ - any team member will have a specific user access you can see the Megver83 one as ~megver in the git site -[14:38] coadde is creating specific user accounts, so you can create git repos inside your user account -<@quiliro> It would be great we could make a sample commit - so, if you want develop HyperbolaBSD kernel, just copy the hyperbk git repo to your user account -[14:39] Megver83: afaik Parabola server has a script to create/delete git repos, could you give us that script? -[14:40] Megver83: it is so important to ease the task for our team to create their custom git repos -[14:41]<@quiliro> welcome barbanegra - coadde decided create a similar structure in git than Linux kernel environment, where official git repos will remain untouched until see the team commits from their users repos - if those commits are stable from their user git repos, then we pull to the official one - gracias quiliro -[14:42]<@quiliro> barbanegra: we are building the development team to create a new operating system - in fact, you have total access in your user account to create/delete git repos, it will appear in our site as your git repo eg. if quiliro will create a git repo, it will appear inside ~quiliro - so he can push and modify this git repo without limits -[14:43] okay how do we access our git - so under this way, we remain our structure decentralized and federalized, however inside our git server -[14:44] rached: coadde is structuring it yet, you will have an user account inside the server, so you can create your git repos, also you can add your custom ones, not only HyperbolaBSD - rached: it will be similar than github - alright -[14:45] rached: however since libregit became a mess, we decided to invest more time to bring those git repos to our server instead from abroad -[14:46] a new operating system? as a new kernel from scratch? or a new GNU distribution? - LuxFer: ok, we need a ssh key (ed25519 algorithm required) and profile (see quiliro one as sample -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#quiliro) -[14:47] Emulatorman: what do you think about https://sourcehut.org/ - barbanegra: HyperbolaBSD will be a new BSD descendant by using OpenBSD as base (hard-forking) to develop a BSD focused on GPLv3 to bring new GPLed features or port GPLed compatible ones. - i mean what about hosting a server using it -[14:48] barbanegra: we have an interview about it from It’s FOSS for further details -> https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/ -[14:49]<@quiliro> by the way, we have a new volunteer from guatemala -<@quiliro> he is not here now - ah nice ! yes, i’ve heard of HyperbolaBSD - seems great -<@quiliro> but he will take all our chats from the previous meetings and make a document to guide newbies - barbanegra: currently we are planning to bring new volunteers/devs to speed up the development -[14:50] maybe try contact Jaidedctrl, she mantained LibertyBSD -<@quiliro> then he wil translate it to English - she probably will be interested -[14:51] barbanegra: our plan is release HyperbolaBSD for 2024 (https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:releases#development_releases), however if we will increase our dev team, it could be possible to release (at least the Beta version) before that year - barbanegra: could you or quiliro contact her? -[14:52] barbanegra: currently our high priority is increase our team as fast as possible to speed up the development. we want a BSD descendant system focused on GPL usable before 2024 -[14:55] ok i can -[14:57] I told her to join this channel, she seems to be away - ok ty barbanegra -[14:58] Emulatorman: sorry for the late answer, I’m going and coming. Regarding the automatic git repo creation/deletion/modification idk if where’s such script, I just ssh git@repo and it automatically starts, but I’ll look for it later, please remind me -[14:59] Megver83: afaik, fauno or lukeshu did that. -[15:00] i work on DevOps - is there any need for DevOps work? -[15:05] barbanegra: currently, we are requesting new developer volunteers (Assembly, C, etc) to complete the HyperbolaBSD kernel. coadde is preparing our new git structure, email accounts and profiles while i’m preparing the roadmap to add in our site and markdown for those user who reject the using of javascript -[15:08] barbanegra: anyway, i’m going to push a list of the current kernel development to you see it while our roadmap is under progress - nice -[15:09]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: is it possible to do anything right now? - hey Jadedctrl -<@quiliro> such as add a repository or clone or whatever -<@quiliro> welcome to the chatroom jadedctrl -<@quiliro> thank you for comming -[15:10] quiliro: it stills under progress (around 80%), coadde is preparing the user accounts and emails and permissions - o/ -<@quiliro> I am the host for this room but Emulatorman is the head developer of HyperbolaBSD - jadedctrl would you like to work on HyperbolaBSD? -<@quiliro> jadedctrl: have you heard about it? -[15:11]<@quiliro> barbanegra: thank you for inviting jadedctrl - heard of it, hyperbolaBSD seems like an excellent project - but I don’t really have the time to contribute rn unfortunately -[15:12]<@quiliro> jadedctrl: if you can contribute one hour per week, it would be a lot for us because of your experience -[15:13]<@quiliro> jadedctrl: we would appreciate it very much -[15:14] not sure I’d be able to help too much― my experience with C and asm is pretty limited - and you know a lot about OpenBSD and the problems of building an image -[15:15]<@quiliro> what do you think, Emulatorman ? -<@quiliro> I agree with barbanegra -<@quiliro> your support would be great as a name also, jadedctrl -[15:16]<@quiliro> if you agree with the objectives - i’ll have to see if there are ways I can contribute :) -[15:17]<@quiliro> would you please tell us what were the problems and dificulties when you did your project? -[15:19]<@quiliro> jadedctrl: you could tell people about volunteering to HyperbolaBSD -<@quiliro> that would be indeed very useful without much time commitment - iirc on the libertybsd site I added a link to hyperbolabsd -<@quiliro> very nice jadedctrl … thanks -[15:20] I agree with Quiliro -[15:22] and the biggest problem with lbsd was managing libre ports and packages, iirc - thought y’all seem to have plenty of experience on that front already - *though -[15:24] Jadedctrl has a few commitments already -[15:25] But maybe she will have more time in a couple months - I think you don’t need to start right away jadedctrl - But you can hang around and give advice for now -[15:28]<@quiliro> yes, definitely -<@quiliro> it is very motivating too -[15:29]<@quiliro> LuxFer: please send your data to emulatorman’s tox user -<@quiliro> to be included in the team -[15:30] yes, anyway, HyperbolaBSD is planned to be released for -2024 (desired for 2022~2023), so there is enough time to join in the team who have more free time in a couple months -[15:31] guys, i have current task to do for you right now, do you would help us create a documentation for our HyperbolaBSD’s Roadmap? we could create a draft in a pad https://pad.riseup.net -[15:32] i have a file about our kernel source code list and TODO, however i need help to do an introduction to push that article/documentation to wiki/markdown - quiliro: could you give us a pad site to begin it? -[15:33] quiliro: i mean it because you are using a limited browser, so you should choose a way to we begin do this task, what do you think? -[15:34]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: it would be better to do it with git -[15:35] ok quiliro: so i need the confirmation who would join in our team to begin it as fast as possible -<@quiliro> who has been confirmed up to now? -[15:36] quiliro: currently, we have lightbearer, megver83, minall, you and rachad -<@quiliro> has LuxFer sent his data?? - no yet - i didn’t received the tox invitation from him -<@quiliro> how are you with that, LuxFer ? -[15:37] What is the id of Emulatorman? -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: that is the id of LuxFer 2B7EF5EA06A97AEF842F8CA8537676A1FB90D69212F2FB113F344C30BED13A0D -[15:38] LuxFer: - AF459A41CD9ACA2AC86965B8DAB73C3F938C00F307FC7079E9A080631B483A12AF0A04207EA4 - thats emulatorman ID LuxFer -[15:39]<@quiliro> rachad: which is yours? -[15:40] quiliro: wen you copy someone else id from your tox contact list it doesn’t give you 76 hexadecimal characters -[15:41] it will always miss the no spam characters -[15:42] i didn’t play with other tox clients but qtox at least does that -<@quiliro> oh…I see - quiliro: this is my ID 80F9B0DE3E70AE9DB6820979803F9B48AF043DF9A134892F3DAF273C6EADA71095A82710DF36 -<@quiliro> I am newbie -[15:43] we all are :) -[15:44] coadde is creating a new git user called “~team”, so entire team will have access there to push commits, it will be useful to work entire team together (eg. HyperbolaBSD kernel and drafts) -[15:45] okay great - the official ones will be only mirrors -[15:50] for compatibility reasons (eg. read in sites without additional scripts), we decided using of markdown for documentation, draft, source code readme, etc. -<@quiliro> which are your tox ids, Minall and LightBearer =? -[15:51] 1FD6DC2F2C7A8096D80D46E71E8B33608FBDA1FA91C3B9EB871E2D6E4900E25704368826574C - Thanks for mentioning me quiliro, just was on meeting break -[15:52] But now I’m back on it lol, I’m reading all though - btw, it is the official markdown syntax documentation for further details -> https://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax - Emulatorman Can org be used?, with HTML exporting - Or just markdown - we will use markdown for compatibility reasons -[15:53] eg. Org has no mime type support - and we need it -[15:54] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_type -[15:55] Markdown has support of mime type instead -[15:58] I do not remember my public key, I am searching for it. - :) -<@quiliro> I thought you already sent it to Emulatorman -[15:59] at least make sure you save you private key LightBearer -<@quiliro> LightBearer: what I asked for is for your tox id…not for your ssh public key -[16:00]<@quiliro> yes, LightBearer…never give your private keys…they are private! -<@quiliro> ;-) - LightBearer: its in your .ssh -[16:01] if you didn’t move it somewere else - id_ed25519.pub -[16:03] 498AB404B6EB3ADAED726728C883972277ED7BCFA5A35C2956B8A04E7F928A20D4468C120AFC -[16:04] this is my tox id -[16:05] thank you all for your valuable help. -[16:06]<@quiliro> rachad: she already sent her ssh public key to Emulatorman -<@quiliro> or not, LightBearer ? - yes, i received it -[16:07] yes I sent him a long time ago -[16:20]<@quiliro> ok amigos… is there any thing else? -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: I guess we are doing our english meetings here at this time -<@quiliro> 14h00 utc-5 -[16:22] yes - that is the way, english is the best choice to use as language for our meeting, since all of us understand that language -[16:23]<@quiliro> it is more difficult for most - how many contacts must be included I have 4 less me. -<@quiliro> but some do not speak spanish - what do you mean LightBearer -[16:24]<@quiliro> she wants to enter the group chat on tox -[16:25] ok -[16:27]<@quiliro> basically rachad and Megver83 -[16:28]<@quiliro> the rest speak spanish -<@quiliro> but it is difficult - its difficult to speak english ? -[16:29]<@quiliro> yes…90% of the world does not speak english and for about half of the speakers it is not a first language -[16:30]<@quiliro> it is not easy to attain a good level as has a native speaker -[16:31]<@quiliro> so, that is why I said it is a difficult language - at least until we all learn spanish we will all use english here :D -<@quiliro> spanish is even harder - i know english native speakers who have a verry bad english grammar -[16:32]<@quiliro> esperanto is easy…but most people do not want to spend time learning -<@quiliro> me too! -<@quiliro> LOL - :) - i think we are doing okay! -[16:33]<@quiliro> dankon al ĉuij….thanks everyone -<@quiliro> I think we did a lot today - I’m on my way home my friends!… Imma pass you everything -through tox Emulatorman - Bye quiliro! -<@quiliro> integrating a team is not easy -<@quiliro> nice Minall -[16:34]<@quiliro> but we are a team now - good -<@quiliro> it does not matter if we can help with a lot or just a few minutes every day -<@quiliro> HyperbolaBSD counts on us -[16:35] I’ve been loosely following (was working…) My C/assembly skills are weak -<@quiliro> and we can each pitch in our drop of water - biovoid: yes, but you would learn in the way - same here biovoid -[16:36] Yes, I would be happy to learn - biovoid: HyperbolaBSD is a platform where you can learn and improve your skill, even if you are newbie as programmer - biovoid: you could looking for tutorials, also there are a lot of courses in Udemy with cheap prices -[16:39] quiliro: my native lang is spanish, btw (I’m Chilean) -<@quiliro> oh! -[16:40]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: I wonder if there is some libre material to learn C - oh! -[16:41]<@quiliro> Megver83: I meant gaming4jc -<@quiliro> but he is not here…so I switched your nicks…sorry -[16:43] i hope im not the only one here who doesn’t speak spanish :) -<@quiliro> Stallman always says that the best way to learn is to read code from a good project and then write the code -<@quiliro> haha, rachad - rachad: I don’t speak Spanish either -<@quiliro> it is not a sin - nice biovoid your my best friend ;) -<@quiliro> haha - you are in good company :) - thank you -[16:44]<@quiliro> very good -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: so, are we done? -<@quiliro> are there any more questions? - n - no -[16:45] quiliro: no quiliro, there are some things to do -<@quiliro> biovoid: are you willing to be part of the team? - first of all, biovoid, would you like to join the team as HyperbolaBSD’s dev? - the second one are the links to learn C programming language -[16:46] currently, i’m going to looking for the links for that -[16:47]<@quiliro> it would be great that biovoid would join in - wen will we meet again quiliro ? -<@quiliro> tomorrow - okay -<@quiliro> just 1 hour - tutorials: - https://www.tutorialspoint.com/cprogramming/index.htm - https://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/c-tutorial.html - those 2 links were important to me learn C -[16:48] thank you Emulatorman - Yes, I would love to be involved… my time is limited in the -coming months, but I would be happy to contribute where I can - today, i will looking for important courses from Udemy for you guys - alright -[16:49]<@quiliro> biovoid…if you can be here every day for a little, it would be great -[16:50]<@quiliro> monday-friday -<@quiliro> at 14h00 utc-5 - Emulatorman: thank you for the links. - everyday at 2pm utc-5 quiliro ? -[16:51]<@quiliro> yes -<@quiliro> but not saturday and sunday - okay -<@quiliro> well, I guess someone will be in #hyperbola -[16:52]<@quiliro> the idea is that it will not be more than 1 hour every day -<@quiliro> so people will not have to use much time -<@quiliro> and can be able to contribute -<@quiliro> with a little -[16:53]<@quiliro> and with a lot of people contributing a little every day, it becomes a lot -<@quiliro> of contributions -*** Users on #asle: jadedctrl barbanegra LuxFer LightBearer Megver83 rachad xuxx_ coadde Emulatorman janaxpachapuka @quiliro @torshido void09 biovoid - I try to tune in to some capacity, but that is during my day job presently, so my focus may be intermittent -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: did LuxFer send you the data? -[16:54]<@quiliro> ok, biovoid … you can connect to #hyperbola at other times and mention Emulatorman or me -[16:55] Udemy courses: https://www.udemy.com/course/c-for-technical-interview/ - I am just about always connected to #hyperbola, …just not always active - https://www.udemy.com/course/developing-a-multithreaded-kernel-from-scratch/ - https://www.udemy.com/course/linux-device-driver-programming-using-beaglebone-black/ -[16:56] Emulatorman: thank you for linking all these resources - https://www.udemy.com/course/complete-x86-assembly-language-120-practical-exercise/ -[16:57] all of those course will give you certification -[16:58] those courses are paid, however you could get 90% discount udemy coupons around internet -[16:59] i cant see t - * - i cant see how much they cost right now cause i dont use javascript - but i will try to access them from another pc tomorrow - ok - thank you Emulatorman -[17:00] you’re welcome - if its not much i will surely buy them -[17:02] guys, i recommend codeblocks as IDE for development - for those who love the old school, Emacs and Vim is the way -[17:04] another interesting C programming course in Udemy -> https://www.udemy.com/course/c-programming-for-beginners-programming-in-c/ - it contains over 100 practical exercises -[17:07] okay - at least this latest link is focused for students -[17:09]<@quiliro> what happened to LuxFer ? -[17:18]<@quiliro> biovoid: did you send your details to Emulatorman to be part of the team? -<@quiliro> biovoid: do you have a tox user? - i think it is enough for today guys, meanwhile coadde stills preparing our structure for the team (git, emails), you could see those links (tutorials and courses) for further details - ohh I have not used tox in years; I don’t remember any of my stuff -[17:21]<@quiliro> you can send an encrypted email to emulatorman or contact him via tox -[17:22]<@quiliro> please talk to him for being included in the team -<@quiliro> I am sure you could come at least a few minutes per day -[17:23] will do -<@quiliro> thank you very much -[17:25]<@quiliro> well thanks everyone: Emulatorman and coadde, jadedctrl… and especially LightBearer, biovoid and LuxFer …it was nice to have barbanegra for his great overall view of things too -[17:26] btw, git course for those who never used git -> https://www.udemy.com/course/git-complete/ -[17:27]<@quiliro> it was a great meeting….will publish the chat at asle.ec -[17:28]<@quiliro> and will have a draft of the information gathered in these 5 sessions in a couple of days - I hope to have more time as soon as I am done with my thesis -[17:29]<@quiliro> I forgot to mention Minall and megver83…they participated too and their contributions were very useful -<@quiliro> yes, barbanegra -[17:30]<@quiliro> your suggestions are always great too -<@quiliro> please come when you can -[17:31] Yes I do want ta help - I am deeply worried about the constant addition of insecurities and code to the kernel -[17:32] Lots of stuff to benefit android or cloud providers -[17:33] btw, LuxFer is included in our dev team, welcome! -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/developers/#LuxFer -[17:35] Thanks Emulatorman -[17:46]<@quiliro> oh! great -<@quiliro> welcome to te team, LuxFer -[17:47]<@quiliro> barbanegra: then please send the data and your ssh public key to Emulatorman -<@quiliro> barbanegra: you can always help with however much you can -[17:48]<@quiliro> every little effort pushes forward -[17:49] OK I will (:. -[18:22]<@quiliro> nice barbanegra -[18:33] biovoid added to the dev team -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/developers/#biovoid -[18:35] welcome biovoid to the team! -[18:39] well guys, i need to go for some minutes -[18:40] some doubt or question to do? -[18:46] well, i’m going to go for some minutes/hours, see ya soon guys -* Emulatorman is afk -~~~~ -
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-_Click on me to see_ - -## Meet 4 - 2021-04-09 - -~~~~{.irc} -[14:06]<@quiliro> welcome to the free software association of ecuador, rachad, Emulatorman and coadde - Hola -<@quiliro> hello LightBearer - thank you quiliro ! - im happy to be here -[14:07]<@quiliro> LightBearer: do you mind that we make our meeting in English today? - hola rachad -<@quiliro> rachad is from India and speaks English - jaj - hola LightBearer :) -<@quiliro> that was a laugh in Spanish -[14:08] maybe do you speak Spanish? - *im from Algeria quiliro -<@quiliro> jaj is a chucle and a half -<@quiliro> oh…sorry rachad - oh jaja I tried to say - its okay :) -[14:09] ok lets begin the class today - the teachers are Emulatorman and coadde -<@quiliro> void09: you are invited to participate too -<@quiliro> torshido: you are also invited -[14:10] Quiliro is the coordinator. Iam the student here with you - nice to meet you LightBearer -[14:11]<@quiliro> today we will discuss more IT stuff, right Emulatorman ? the previous days we discussed the freedom stuff and the legal stuff (licenses) - ok -[14:12] btw, rachad, do you know something about c programming? -<@quiliro> coadde: did you and Emulatorman have other plans? - not much Emulatorman -[14:13]<@quiliro> rachad is a quick learner - ok -[14:14] rachad, do you know something about licenses? -<@quiliro> I think that rachad knows enough about freedom that we can continue with the roadmap today -<@quiliro> oh…ok…go on please, Emulatorman - i know what are they and what they mean - so i didn’t miss anything you cna countinue - *can -[14:15] ok, our goal is develop a BSD descendant system, however the main focus is develop on GPLv3 license -<@quiliro> why, Emulatorman ? please say it -<@quiliro> for rachad -[14:16] Of course, we accept permissive licenses such as BSD-3, BSD-2, Expat, ISC. However the main license used by us is GPLv3. The reason about it is about follow the copyleft philosophy - in short, we would preserve the freedom in the modifications and future forks to protect freedom -[14:17] if im not wrong GPLv3 will make to code opensource even for future use - if you know rachad, BSD descendant systems became famous for companies such as Sony for their PlayStation brands, however they never have the good behaviour to contribute back with free software -[14:18] yes they locked the code and used it for commercial goals - that is the main goal about permissive licenses, to be “free” to make future modifications under nonfree software -[14:20] in fact, community is affected for that. So, GPL and copyleft licenses exist for those goals -> protect freedom in next gen of software or forks, redistributions, etc. -<@quiliro> it is no problem to make commercial products…the problem is to not allow freedom to the user - so our goal is maintain an copyleft BSD descendant system. - yes Emulatorman and quiliro GPLv3 is the other way arround were it will keep future use free and opensource -[14:21]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: you previous statement is great -<@quiliro> your* -<@quiliro> we do not care about opensource…they do not care about freedom -[14:22]<@quiliro> free is about freedom, not gratuity - it will help to bring future ports from Linux (only code under GPLv2+, not GPLv2-only) because the second one is non-GPLv3 compatible. Even, cool projects such as ReactOS uses GPLv2+ and GPLv3+ and contains interesting features to be ported to HyperbolaBSD - sure - sorry, ReactOS uses GPLv2+ -[14:23]<@quiliro> you can also use the word libre in French or Spanish and the word livre in Portuguese to make it clearer that the price is not the issue - as i said i didn’t miss anything in your previous lessons so you can countinue Emulatorman -[14:24] ok rachad - I am ready too to go on with you -[14:25]<@quiliro> rachad: if you can translate from Spanish, here is what we have discussed these days: https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ -[14:26] coadde is planning to organize the teams. Yesterday we were creating a new subdomain called "https://bsd.hyperbola.info". It will be our next link to push/pull commits for our kernel and userland while our distribution of GNU/Linux is active -<@quiliro> we will have a translation, but we do not know when -<@quiliro> great, Emulatorman - our plan is migrate our HyperbolaBSD git repos to a https://bsd.hyperbola.info -[14:27]<@quiliro> very nice - also, who would integrate the team, it is required send us the profile to add to the staff of support or developers - it is so important to community know who are you and trust you -<@quiliro> and the other part to https://gnu.hyperbola.info ? - can i invite someone to join -[14:28] i mean now here -<@quiliro> of course, rachad - okay -<@quiliro> thank you - yes quiliro -[14:29] yes, everybody is welcome here -<@quiliro> very good organization, Emulatorman … thank you - yes, I will create CGit servers in bsd.hyperbola.info and gnu.hyperbola.info, but i require ssh keys to allow access it. -[14:30] I will create gnu.hyperbola.info subdomain. -<@quiliro> oh…I was about to generate my key…but I do not know how yet -<@quiliro> nice coadde -<@quiliro> bemvindo, coadde -[14:32] quiliro: thanks, hello everyone. - hi coadde :) - welcome didou_ - quiliro: you should have a ssh key to get access to git repos - hhhh it’s fast -*** Users on #asle: didou_ LightBearer rachad @quiliro coadde Emulatorman @torshido void09 - i know you cant speak much but try to stay and see what is it about didou_ -[14:33] okay -<@quiliro> welcome didou_ … meet: Emulatorman, coadde and LightBearer - Emulatorman: do i need an ssh key as well ? - welcome didou_ -<@quiliro> I am your host currently in this room and at the service of all of you -[14:34] yes rachad, at least to push commits - okay i will create one -[14:35] i think we need create a branch to avoid messing up our maste branch, what do you think guys? - of cource - i mean a git branch - yes at least untill we get used to what are we doing -[14:36] eg. create branch with our usernames, -> emulatorman, rachad, quiliro, etc -<@quiliro> is that the same as creating a key pair? - so, if those commits are stables and cool, we just pull them to the master -[14:37] great idea Emulatorman that way it keeps the project and teh main repo clean -<@quiliro> branch…good idea - if you guys see our git repos, there are branches such as emulatorman there -[14:38] eg. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packages/extra.git/log/?h=emulatorman -[14:39] its okay i will share the log with didou_ - he works with me - yes Emulatorman i can see that -[14:40] I have a confusion here: what is the meaning of git repos and then you say git branch, what is difference between both of them? -[14:41] wb - *welcome back - oh rachad I was asking the meaning of wb, thanks -*** Users on #asle: Minall LightBearer rachad @quiliro coadde Emulatorman @torshido void09 -[14:42]<@quiliro> welcome Minall -<@quiliro> good to see you - Hello Asle Community! - LightBearer: git is a platform to push and pull development code - Thank you, quiliro, good to see you too - Emulatorman: The good thing is that it is free software -<@quiliro> this is the meeting to help people become members of the HyperbolaBSD team get their credentials to commit in the repository -[14:43] LightBearer: there, you can follow the progress of the development, also you can clone the git repo in your machine and follow the progress from your machine, or through a website via cgit (git web interface) or similar - dankon, donk je, gracias, thank you -<@quiliro> LightBearer: you already use git to commit your accounting -[14:44]<@quiliro> with magit - Emulatorman: Magit is cool -[14:46]<@quiliro> coadde: can easypg be used to generate my keys? - quiliro: you can use any GUI environment to generate pgp keys -[14:47] Emulatorman: You can find the commands searching in eww too -<@quiliro> (info “(epa) Top”) in Emacs info - http://paste.debian.net/1192987/ -[14:48] rachad, independent there is c language code inside HyperbolaBSD, we need assembly one too - Please, somebody to help me how to generate pgp keys, remember I am a novice here - i have a pgp key already Emulatorman -[14:49] ok - LightBearer: what is your DE? KDE, Gnome? - quiliro: compatible openssh key is required, I have not test easypg. -[14:50] Emulatorman: LXDE is mine - ok - LightBearer: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GnuPG -[14:51]<@quiliro> "EasyPG Assistant is an Emacs user interface to GNU Privacy Guard." -<@quiliro> Is that what I need? - quiliro: ok, cool then :) - yes, in fact - quiliro: ok - you just need a GUI app to generate the keys - also it is so useful to encrypt emails -[14:52] sorry, i’m confusing with gpg - LightBearer ^ - LightBearer: anyway, a gpg key is needed too -<@quiliro> I am confused - same here -[14:53] it is so important to sign emails and software - we need 3 keys - You mean ssh keys Emulatorman? -<@quiliro> ok…so what is gpg and what do we need - one pgp and gpg and ssh ? - quiliro: ok, sorry, I’m confusing EasyPG with SSH. - but, currently we need ssh keys first - As I know, git uses SSH keys - https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenSSH - guide for ssh keys -> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SSH_keys -[14:54] ssh-keygen -[14:55] in short, we need 2 impportant things to create a team, 1) ssh keys to access to git repos 2) gpg keys to sign tags and tarballs, and also send encrypted emails - HyperbolaBSD uses ed25519 ssh keys - okay - HyperbolaBSD/Hyperbola Projects Servers - Minall: yes, but we require ed25519 only for ssh keys, for security reasons -[14:56] Just to ilustrate this, if I have a server I can access through SSH, I can access it through root using its password, which is a bad practice… So a good practice is to generate in the pc one is using a key, putting that key in known_hosts of the server, and when you connect, you can connect instantly since the SSH key identifies your system, you can even put a password - I guess the link you already gave me is for only for me. The two others are for someone else but me? - Emulatorman: Let me generate one with that algorithm -[14:57] this is the command to generate the SSH key required in HyperbolaBSD -> ssh-keygen -t ed25519 -[14:58] Thank you, I was searching just that - quiliro, rachad, LightBearer, didou_ -> ssh-keygen -t ed25519 - it will generate the ssh key required to access to git repos - okay -[14:59] The public one is the one that you can share - Emulatorman: May I join to the git?, I haven’t contributed though - please create a gpg key to send the public ssh key via encrypted email (not text-only) at emulatorman@hyperbola.info -[15:00] Minall: we are creating a platform and subdomain for our volunteers to help us develop HyperbolaBSD code -[15:01] The platform would be git, but what do u mean by subdomain? - it is required knowledge of C programming or/and Assembly to begin contribute -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: I created a ssh key with your instruction - C programming, not much aseembly though, but I want to read about it - the subdomain will be made to split off both projects (GNU/Linux distro and HyperbolaBSD system) -[15:02]<@quiliro> I don’t remember if I created gpg keys - ok quiliro, do you have GPG to sign emails? - I'm gonna send you my ssh public key Emulatorman, over encrypted mail - quiliro: Check ~/.ssh - same here i will send my key - please, send me via encrypted email only, for seurity reasons - sure -[15:03] id_ed25519.pub may appear, only send the .pub - and please a profile to add to the team - you can use heckyel’s profile as sample -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#heckyel - okay -[15:04] let me know if you will join as support member or developer or both -<@quiliro> $ ls .ssh -<@quiliro> id_ed25519 id_ed25519.pub id_rsa id_rsa.pub known_hosts - it is important to organize your profiles there - What is the difference from a support member to a developer Emulatorman _ - quiliro: id_ed25519.pub is the public ssh key -<@quiliro> yes… - quiliro: id_ed25519.pub is the one you have to send -[15:05]<@quiliro> as I said, I do not remember if I created gpg keys - support member are users who is helping to bring devs, or give support for community, such as helping an user who is stuck in an installation, etc - developers are developers lol - Emulatorman: As expected lol -[15:06] So support member would be reading the blogs and irc for help? - also we have another team who handle to send patches, or check vulnerabilities or issues or let us know to upgrade Debian patches for the GNU/Linux version - -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/security-team/ - yes Minall -[15:07] i will try to send you an email with my profile and if something i wrong and needs to be changed let me know - or like LightBearer who is helping our future volunteers to organize in future groups, or give them an introduction about HyperbolaBSD - ok rachad - Emulatorman: I see -[15:08] LightBearer: i’m looking for a GPG GUI app for you to ease the creation of gpg keys - LightBearer: it will be important too -[15:09] I already have created ssh genkey - LightBearer: cool - now, it is needed a gpg key to communicate via encrypted emails - to increase security in our communication via emails -[15:10]<@quiliro> I do not know if I have GPG … I do not sign emails yet - we will create @hyperbola.info email accounts for you to increase that security too -[15:11] quiliro: afaik, mutt is a cool email client used by some of my friends. i don’t know if Emacs environment has a similar app - Emulatorman: I use @pm.me mail, which encrypts mails - Emulatorman: But that would be better - cool - quiliro: maybe you could ask heckyel who is an advanced user in Emacs - Emacs has a built in mail, which can have gpg keys and all, if not, modules exist -[15:12]<@quiliro> I use gnus..and easypgp is used with it to send emails…but you I should have generated my gpg keypair first -[15:13]<@quiliro> how can I know if my gpg keys have been generated? - LightBearer:quiliro: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GnuPG -[15:14] I haven’t readed about that yet sadly quiliro :c - Emulatorman: My mail is sended - ty Minall - To you, I’m bussy nowadays but, believe me I’m learning on my free time -[15:15] Did u received it? - yes, i received, ty -[15:16] the next time, if you send your public ssh key, please send me under an encrypted email -<@quiliro> LightBearer: GnuPG allows you to encrypt and sign your data and communications - Emulatorman: Isn’t encrypted?, I forgot that, Imma send it to you right away -[15:17] But it is encrypted right? -<@quiliro> LightBearer: SSH keys can serve as a means of identifying yourself to an SSH server -[15:19] Minall: no, you sent me an text-only email -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: why is encryption necesary? Isn’t it supposed to be public? - Emulatorman: is it okay to encrypt the message using your expired key ? - yes I have already read the information above that gave me Emulatorman. The problem is that I do not know wath todo next - what -[15:20] were are you stuck at LightBearer ? - Minall: we reject non-encrypted emails for security reasons, because we don’t know who is sending us those public keys is your in fact - Emulatorman: Oh… Sorry, I sent you my key too, do you want me to generate another one? -<@quiliro> LightBearer: that is ok…I am trying to summarize for you - eg. bill-auger received a massive attack, and a lot of attackers send us an emails via text-only - thank you all for your help - by using his email -<@quiliro> LightBearer: Please give me several minutes -[15:21] Emulatorman: So, should I generate a new key and send it encrypted?, since I sent you one without encryption\ - ok I have all the time in my lifetime. - Minall: for profiles, it isn’t needed, but yes for SSH public keys, because we are “opening” an access to our servers -<@quiliro> rachad: she needs to create a gpg keypair -<@quiliro> and me too -[15:22]<@quiliro> but she is an end user -<@quiliro> she can type on a terminal, tough - okay i only have terminal based tutorials - let me find one - True, let me send you a newly generated pair encrypted - yes to say in one way, my work depends on quiliro`s work. -[15:23] quiliro: there are GUI apps to generate gpg keys, but i don’t remember their names :s - Emulatorman: Seahorse? - May be a little bloated so, nope -[15:24] minall: yes, seahorse is an easy app to generate gpg keys -<@quiliro> Minall: do not send the pair; only the public ssh key signed with your private gpg key and encrypted with his public gpg key - https://riseup.net/en/security/message-security/openpgp/gpg-best-practices -[15:25] thanks a lot, I will check it outç - to rachad -[15:26] quiliro: if encrypt an email is so hard for you, paste your ssh key here, but anyway i suggest you use gpg keys to sign future tags, tarballs, send encrypted emails - your welcome LightBearer - quiliro: Thanks quiliro -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: I am learning as I teach - Emulatorman: Did you received my email? -<@quiliro> experimenting with my students. haha -[15:27] in some important part of the development, it will be so important to send encrypted emails for important info or sensible data to send between the team through emails -* Minall Explodes - for that reason, i insist to use encrypted emails, even more in nowadays with NSA on the way -* quiliro implodes -<@quiliro> I totally agree, Emulatorman -[15:28] Minall: let me see… - Emulatorman: Are we in USA?, perhaps worse -<@quiliro> encryption breaks power structures - I used a feature of pm for adding a password -<@quiliro> the powerful feel powerless with universal encryption - And a hint for u - quiliro: That’s right -<@quiliro> pm? -[15:29] protonmail -<@quiliro> oh - apparently encrypted mail - I’ve using for quite a while, just for business and important stuff though -<@quiliro> I will see rachad ‘s link - Minall: that is not the best way to encrypt emails, i suggest you use an email client and sign it locally. - Never tested it so, it is just a separation for important stuff -[15:30] Emulatorman: What do you mean?… I only have mails which are well, not good for important stuff - Emulatorman: is it okay to sign the mail with your epired key -and can it even work ? - Should I use another mailer?, for me to sign it - rachad: i upgraded my gpg key - let me confirm it again… -[15:31] you mean this pub key Emulatorman - https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&fingerprint=on&search=0xE6974752F9704456 -[15:32] seems mit.edu is wrong - let me send you another key server - okay - try hkp://keys.gnupg.net or hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net -[15:33] my key expires at 2022-02-13 - anyway, i will try push my upgraded key at mit.edu -[15:34]<@quiliro> ls .gnupg/ -<@quiliro> crls.d private-keys-v1.d pubring.kbx pubring.kbx~ S.dirmngr trustdb.gpg -<@quiliro> I don’t think I have a gpg keypair -[15:35] I’m at a loss… How should I send this mail?, I have pm as mail provider - quiliro -> gpg -k | less -RS -[15:36]<@quiliro> pub rsa2048 2019-10-11 [SC] [expires: 2021-07-30] -<@quiliro> is that it? -<@quiliro> sub rsa2048 2019-10-11 [E] [expires: 2021-07-30] -[15:37] Minall: protomail is a crap service, you are using a -(SaaSS) to sign emails that is so dangerous for your privacy - Minall: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html - Emulatorman: What do you recommend to me then, for having a -secure mail I can use with a trust encryption - Thanks, let me read it - Minall: the best way is sign emails from your side via a email client and locally -[15:38]<@quiliro> Minall: have an email account with hyperbola.info ;-) - lol :p - that is the way about @hyperbola.info email accounts ;) - Emulatorman: And what email should I user?, like create an own? - lol -[15:39] quiliro: Yes but I don’t >.< - I have only SaaSS services which are a no-no so - since our email server is inside our server, without any "strange" company checking our emails - Minall what is the meaning of >.<¿ -[15:40] rachad: i pushed my key at mit.edu -<@quiliro> Minall: set up a mail client and create your gpg keys - Which mailer are the you using? LightBearer?, I need an example for this, since I don’t have an own mail like hyperbola.info -* Emulatorman is checking it now -<@quiliro> then use proton as your server with your mail client - LightBearer: Just a face, like me when I eat lemon >.< - Minall: i suggest use Icedove or Thunderbird since those ones are easy to sign/encrypt emails - minall jaja -[15:41]<@quiliro> I guess LightBearer will not be able to use her client - quiliro: So I could create my own mail in my pc?, like no other needs -<@quiliro> LightBearer has only webmail - quiliro: proton as my server?, which one? - Emulatorman: Icedove seems better -<@quiliro> I could retrieve her file in a usb and send it from my client - My problem right now is the mail I would be using, but quiliro is telling me to create my own -[15:42] Minall: we have Icedove-UXP and IceCrypt for that -<@quiliro> Minall: thunderbird -<@quiliro> with protonmail as your server - rachad: i pushed my upgraded key at mit.edu - rachad: check if it was upgraded -<@quiliro> then encryption is not handled by protonmail - sorry by mistake i put my wifi off using the kill switch - okay Emulatorman -[15:43] Ohhh, so I create my gpg, send the public key to a server, and sign the mail with my private gpg and send it using protonmail? - Ok, that’s better -[15:44] rachad: Never erase root - Minall: what do you mean ? -[15:45] Just jocking rachad, like: there’s no better place than ~ -<@quiliro> no Minall - you mean never use rm /* :) -[15:46]<@quiliro> connect to your protonmail server with icedove or -thunderbird if not available -<@quiliro> and use icedove to send the encrypted email -<@quiliro> my case is different - Emulatorman: Service Temporarily Unavailable at mit.edu -<@quiliro> I need to find a guide for gnus - can you share a direct link of your public key - yes, seems so -[15:47] ok -<@quiliro> use another server Emulatorman … not mit.edu -<@quiliro> this is a good test for making this process much simpler - i will just send you the same picture im using on tox and the ssh key Emulatorman -<@quiliro> but we are learning a lot! -[15:48]*** Users on #asle: rachad Minall LightBearer @quiliro coadde -Emulatorman @torshido void09 - Emulatorman: https://keys.openpgp.org/ - quiliro: I aggre - s/aggre/agree -<@quiliro> ogre -<@quiliro> :-D -[15:49] :-D - >.< - :-D - A little unrelated question quiliro, do you have any idea on how to prevent (switch-to-buffer) to prompt, and just go to its first selection automatically?\ -[15:50] Don’t worry, just found the way quiliro :-D -[15:51]<@quiliro> everyone has to send your ssh public key, signed with your private gpg key and encrypted with emulator’s gpg public key - Just finished my first own elisp function, and I’m proud -<@quiliro> to emulator’s email - rachad: is there a hkp protocol from there to send my key, i don’t trust send my public key via browsers -[15:52] s|send my key|send my key?| - Wait a second, Imma note that but, let’s go for parts, first, I’m downloading thunderbird since, is the easiest to install for my distro -<@quiliro> Minall: ask at #emacs …. (switch-other-window) or -something I think - quiliro: Just found the way: (switch-other-window nil) -[15:53] hkps://keys.openpgp.org Emulatorman -<@quiliro> keep it on-topic, Minall - http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xE6974752F9704456 - http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xE6974752F9704456 - rachad ^ -[15:54] https://keys.openpgp.org/search?q=0xE6974752F9704456 - thank you Emulatorman - mit.edu upgraded too -[15:55] quiliro: ok, sorry - Still downloading thunderbird -[15:57]<@quiliro> pájaro tonto -<@quiliro> I call it tontobird -<@quiliro> LOL -[15:58] Mejor dile thunderbird jooooooooooooooo - LOL - like the cartoon -<@quiliro> LightBearer de fuego … -<@quiliro> oh! - perdon thundercat, me equivoqué - lol -[15:59]<@quiliro> ya recuerdo he-man - estás en otro cartoon - lol -<@quiliro> sorry for the spanish -<@quiliro> how did it go for you, rachad -<@quiliro> ? -[16:00] loll - NO spanish allowed jajaj - i keep getting key expired - ! -<@quiliro> generate a new gpg key -[16:01] yes I was speaking spanish, I am careless - remembering my childhood with cartoons. -<@quiliro> Ne parolu Hispanan! -[16:02]<@quiliro> LightBearer: please get it back on topic - ok on topic -<@quiliro> we still need to help rachad and Minall send their keys -[16:03]<@quiliro> I can later help you -<@quiliro> I can later help you, LightBearer - im getting Emulatorman key expired not my key - I know, quiliro -<@quiliro> LightBearer: since you need to set up a mail client and you have never done that before -[16:04] did you send him your ssh key quiliro - rachad -> http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xE6974752F9704456 - Thunderbird failed to find the settings for your email account -[16:05] > sig sig3 F9704456 2021-02-13 __________ 2022-02-13 [selfsig] - I’m searching IMAP and POP setup for protonmail -<@quiliro> LightBearer: then you have to generate your gpg keys and send your ssh public key to emulatorman’s email, signed with your private gpg key and encrypted with his public gpg key. -<@quiliro> rachad: I did not send it yet -<@quiliro> I am trying to help everyone else first -[16:06]<@quiliro> rachad: ^ -<@quiliro> Minall: I suggest imaps -<@quiliro> it is secure -[16:07] rachad: did you refresh your gpg database? -> gpg –keyserver hkp://keys.gnupg.net –refresh-keys - Ok, on it - hkp://keys.gnupg.net has my upgraded public key -<@quiliro> Minall: pops is secure too, but your mails are downloaded and removed from the server by default - you can confirm here -> http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xE6974752F9704456 -[16:08]<@quiliro> Minall: and pops does not have directories - i use pop as secure way to handle all emails from my machine - quiliro: No luck for me apparently -[16:09] Like, protonmail can be used with thunderbird, through an application of theirs, but pay is needed - They don’t have POP support, only IMAP through their app, nothing more -[16:10]<@quiliro> evil, Minall - Minall: we will give you a @hyperbola.info email account - These settings aren’t public so, I would have to pay for protonmail to go with it - quiliro: I can’t describe this feeling, since I use libre services, I could do anything, and if I couldn’t it was my knowledge fault -[16:11] But not this, like I know what to do but - wow - Emulatorman: Really!? - our email accounts support POP and IMAP - Emulatorman: That would be amazing, really - yes, if you will have plans to join the Hyperbola team, it is required to increase security between the team - How should I do the process?, register in some way, or how can I help you with it - Emulatorman: Yes, these are my plans -[16:12]<@quiliro> If it is not possible to get a hyperbola.info email, LightBearer and I could give you codes to get a riseup account if you promise not to send spam with it…. -[16:13] quiliro: That’s another good option, let me read about riseup and, why would I send spam? >.< - I’m not evil like that - quiliro: you and LightBearer willl have a hyperbola.info account, for that reason i’m requesting you a profile to add to our team -<@quiliro> Minall: we know you in person and that is the requirement to give codes to people in riseup - I just want to learn how evil works so I can fight it, so cybersecurity - You know me in person!?, I’m scared - eg. quiliro@hyperbola.info, minall@hyperbola.info, rachad@hyperbola.info -[16:14] Emulatorman: Sure, that would be cool, that or riseup, just a mail I could use - Not propietary crappy things - and you LightBearer? what is your nickname for the team? anacleta or lightbearer? - i like anacleta link :P - LightBearer: Is a great name - Lightbearer please - *nick - Minall is, peculiar? - ok Lightbearer - so lightbearer@hyperbola.info ? -[16:15]<@quiliro> Minall: I did not say you were evil; I said that of proton - yes please and thanks Emulatorman - quiliro: >.< -[16:16] coadde: ok, so, we should create rachad@hyperbola.info, quiliro@hyperbola.info, lightbearer@hyperbola.info and minall@hyperbola.info -<@quiliro> lemon face, Minall ? -<@quiliro> LOL - jajaj -[16:17] Yes, a mail I could connect with and work with encryption, for the team -<@quiliro> yes, it would be nice for all the team to have hyperbola.info users - Emulatorman: ok, I will create emails. - guys, if encrypted emails are hard to do right now, please send me those things via Tox -<@quiliro> oh…my - Tox is more easy for that and more secure than emails -[16:18]<@quiliro> setting up tox -<@quiliro> haha -<@quiliro> new task - Is it hard? - nop just install it -<@quiliro> no….unless you have done it before - verry easy - Tox seems easy - Perhaps that would be a better option? -[16:19]<@quiliro> there is toxic, qtox, and others -<@quiliro> for tox -<@quiliro> https://tox.chat -<@quiliro> search for chat clients - it is my Tox ID -> AF459A41CD9ACA2AC86965B8DAB73C3F938C00F307FC7079E9A080631B483A12AF0A04207EA4 - I would go with watever option, I would still need to be connected to IRC -[16:20] So for official things Tox and mail are the options, both seem fine Tox seems easier though, btw, I have to go, Imma connect in the night -[16:21]<@quiliro> I think we could wrap it up - Yeah, Tox seems with even more features so - If you guys trust it, Imma go with it -[16:22]<@quiliro> everyone send your ssh public key to emulatorman signed and encrypted with email or through tox - I have to run, I will connect in the night - I will send you my public key tonigh Emulatorman, through Tox -<@quiliro> next meeting monday - Farewell, I have to run! -<@quiliro> 14h00 utc-5 - On #hyperbola - Minall: it is good to see you, Monday at 2pm Quito s hour. - okay -[16:23] Thanks, LightBearer - Minal have a nice weekend. -<@quiliro> on #asle monday 14h00 utc-5 - Same to yo0u all! -<@quiliro> thank you everyone for comming -<@quiliro> it was really great today - This was nice! -<@quiliro> I liked it very much -[16:24]<@quiliro> thanks to the students: LightBearer, rachad, minall -<@quiliro> and to the teachers: Emulatorman and coadde - quiliro: you are welcome - thank you quiliro -*** Users on #asle: rachad LightBearer @quiliro coadde Emulatorman -@torshido void09 -[16:25]<@quiliro> rachad: I am sorry your friend left -<@quiliro> what happened? - who me? - idk quiliro but he works with me so tomorrow i will meet him -[16:26]<@quiliro> -<@quiliro> ok -<@quiliro> rachad: please thank him also for comming -[16:27] quiliro i will do -[16:28] Emulatorman: i will try to send you my profile updated in tox again like the one you shared -<@quiliro> thank you all for making such a great team and contributing your abilities to this fantastic project - guys, i need it as profile: - Alias: Emulatorman - Email: emulatorman@hyperbola.info - Other Contact: IRC: Emulatorman | Tox: AF459A41CD9ACA2AC86965B8DAB73C3F938C00F307FC7079E9A080631B483A12AF0A04207EA4 - PGP Key: 0xF9704456 - Roles: Hyperbola Co-Founder and Developer - Website: - Occupation: Software Developer - Birth Year: 1986 - Location: Brazil - Languages: Portuguese, Spanish, English and Galician - Interests: Free Software, Ecology - Favorite Distros: - ……….. -[16:29] it’s a sample for you guys - thank you Emulatorman -[16:30] i will send you a file with my profile in tox - ok ty - i’m going to create your profile right now -[16:32] please let me know when you will have it ready ok -[16:58] Emulatorman: i have sent you my profile - ok ty -[18:02] Emulatorman: i sent you a fix file of my profile :) -[18:29] ok rachad, ty, i’m going to stay away from my computer while coadde is preparing our git structure - then i will include you in our team profiles - and email accounts -~~~~ -
- -
-_Click on me to see_ -## Meet 3 - 2021-04-08 - -~~~~{.irc} -[14:06]<@quiliro> welcome to the free software association of ecuador, rachad, Emulatorman and coadde - Hola -<@quiliro> hello LightBearer - thank you quiliro ! - im happy to be here -[14:07]<@quiliro> LightBearer: do you mind that we make our meeting in English today? - hola rachad -<@quiliro> rachad is from India and speaks English - jaj - hola LightBearer :) -<@quiliro> that was a laugh in Spanish -[14:08] maybe do you speak Spanish? - *im from Algeria quiliro -<@quiliro> jaj is a chucle and a half -<@quiliro> oh…sorry rachad - oh jaja I tried to say its okay :) -[14:09] ok lets begin the class today - the teachers are Emulatorman and coadde -<@quiliro> void09: you are invited to participate too -<@quiliro> torshido: you are also invited -[14:10] Quiliro is the coordinator. Iam the student here with you - nice to meet you LightBearer -[14:11]<@quiliro> today we will discuss more IT stuff, right Emulatorman ? the previous days we discussed the freedom stuff and the legal stuff (licenses) - ok -[14:12] btw, rachad, do you know something about c programming? -<@quiliro> coadde: did you and Emulatorman have other plans? - not much Emulatorman -[14:13]<@quiliro> rachad is a quick learner - ok -[14:14] rachad, do you know something about licenses? -<@quiliro> I think that rachad knows enough about freedom that we can continue with the roadmap today -<@quiliro> oh…ok…go on please, Emulatorman - i know what are they and what they mean - so i didn’t miss anything you cna countinue - *can -[14:15] ok, our goal is develop a BSD descendant system, however the main focus is develop on GPLv3 license -<@quiliro> why, Emulatorman ? please say it -<@quiliro> for rachad -[14:16] Of course, we accept permissive licenses such as BSD-3, BSD-2, Expat, ISC. However the main license used by us is GPLv3. The reason about it is about follow the copyleft philosophy - in short, we would preserve the freedom in the modifications and future forks to protect freedom -[14:17] if im not wrong GPLv3 will make to code opensource even for future use - if you know rachad, BSD descendant systems became famous for companies such as Sony for their PlayStation brands, however they never have the good behaviour to contribute back with free software -[14:18] yes they locked the code and used it for commercial goals - that is the main goal about permissive licenses, to be "free" to make future modifications under nonfree software -[14:20] in fact, community is affected for that. So, GPL and copyleft licenses exist for those goals -> protect freedom in next gen of software or forks, redistributions, etc. -<@quiliro> it is no problem to make commercial products…the problem is to not allow freedom to the user - so our goal is maintain an copyleft BSD descendant system. - yes Emulatorman and quiliro GPLv3 is the other way arround were it will keep future use free and opensource -[14:21]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: you previous statement is great -<@quiliro> your* -<@quiliro> we do not care about opensource…they do not care about freedom -[14:22]<@quiliro> free is about freedom, not gratuity - it will help to bring future ports from Linux (only code under GPLv2+, not GPLv2-only) because the second one is non-GPLv3 compatible. Even, cool projects such as ReactOS uses GPLv2+ and GPLv3+ and contains interesting features to be ported to HyperbolaBSD - sure - sorry, ReactOS uses GPLv2+ -[14:23]<@quiliro> you can also use the word libre in French or Spanish and the word livre in Portuguese to make it clearer that the price is not the issue - as i said i didn’t miss anything in your previous lessons so you can countinue Emulatorman -[14:24] ok rachad - I am ready too to go on with you -[14:25]<@quiliro> rachad: if you can translate from Spanish, here is what we have discussed these days: -> https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ -<@quiliro> Es demasiado largo, emulatorman -<@quiliro> pero si les gusta leer, puedo pasarles -<@quiliro> ese mismo - La intención de este curso es aprender qué es el software libre yo le suelo llamar SL para abreviar y Emulatorman y Eccode son los instructores con la coordinación de Quiliro nos van a enseñar a construir el nuevo sistema operativo que se llama HyperbolaBSD -[13:57]<@quiliro> contraseña c u r i q u i n g a -<@quiliro> sin espacios - Ya lo ire a leer - Muchas gracias, justo estaba leyendo otra entrevista -[13:58]<@quiliro> esa entrevista está referida en el último link - ¿Seguro que es esa? - No me deja ingresar - y lo lindo de este proyecto es que somos bienvenid@s tod@s las personas practicantes de todas las ramas, inclusive artistas ya que el software es transversal a todas las disciplinas… eso en resumen -[13:59] LightBearer: claro, es lo bueno que tiene el software - Muchas gracias LightBearer - Pues será un gusto trabajar con ustedes - con gustoQ -[14:00]<@quiliro> los vínculos que ha recibido de profeluchito son un resumen -<@quiliro> cierto que no funciona - para quienes no tuvieron los links de la entrevista, les paso aqui: -[14:01] https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/ - Hola a todos, tengo 2 archivos de código C de ejemplo, para demostrar 2 expresiones de ideas diferentes con el mismo algoritmo, es un ejemplo de como estamos escribiendo el HyperbolaBSD kernel. - https://dpaste.org/TGNF - https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org/entrevista-sobre-hyperbolabsd/ (versión traducida al castellano) -[14:02]<@quiliro> bienvenido coadde -<@quiliro> gracias por tu guía -*** Users on #asle: LuxFer LightBearer coadde Emulatorman @quiliro -@torshido void09 - quiliro: ahí esta un ejemplo basico de C de coadde de como escribir codigo compatible produciendo el mismo resultado - ambos hacen lo mismo, pero son escritos de forma independiente y con expresiones de idea diferentes -[14:03] en resumen, es lo que todos nosotros tenemos que hacer para terminar de completar el sistema HyperbolaBSD en su primera version, para que sea funcional -<@quiliro> coadde nos enseñará lo básico de lo que ha hecho en la construcción de HyperbolaBSD desde la programación en C -[14:04] despues, obviamente para las siguientes versiones añadiremos nuevas funcionalidades o ports de otros sistemas, mientras las licencias sean compatibles - en la entrevista en It’s FOSS esta explicado esos puntos, y los objetivos de HyperbolaBSD -<@quiliro> LuxFer y LightBearer : estamos reemplazando las partes que no son libres de un sistema operativo que se llama openbsd -[14:05] tambien no solo las no libres, sino tambien las que no son compatibles con la licencia GPL de GNU -<@quiliro> LuxFer y LightBearer : para construir HyperbolaBSD -<@quiliro> cierto - dado que la licencia de 4 clausuras de BSD (“Original BSD”) es libre, pero no es compatible con la GPL -<@quiliro> voy a revisar, coadde -[14:06] la idea es hacer un sistema decendiente de BSD enfocado en usar la licencia GPL como principal, a diferencia de los otros BSDs que estan centrados en las licencias de BSD -<@quiliro> lo importante para los nuevos es irse empapando con el tema…no importa que no entiendan porque pueden preguntar cuando lo crean necesario -[14:07]<@quiliro> si hacen preguntas, será más fácil para los instructores - Ok - Si soy nuevo, muy nuevo jaja - independiente de eso, no obigamos que todos usen la licencia GPL de version 3, mientras sea una licencia compatible con la misma para poder cohabitar dentro del mismo codigo y no producir incompatibilidades - Licencias entiendo -<@quiliro> para que ellos puedan guiarles con mayor precisión y viabilidad - BSD, GLP y BSDs -[14:08] La verdad si me pierdo con esos nombres - dado que pueden haber algunos de ustedes que discrepen con la filosofia de la licencia GPL, pueden usar licencias permisivas compatibles. Indico y reitero mas una vez que la licencia original de BSD (BSD-4) no es permisiva totalmente -[14:09] aqui esta explicado la razon de porque la licencia original de BSD (BSD-4) no es compatible con la GPL -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.es.html#OrigBSD -[14:11] para quien le gusta las licencias BSD, pueden usar la licencia modificada de BSD (BSD-3) que elimina dicha clausula de publicidad o la simplificada (BSD-2) - ambas son compatibles con la GPL de version 3 - y las otras versiones de GPL -[14:12] despues hay otras permisivas como la Expat (conocida tambien como la licencia MIT), o la licencia X11 que es similar. Tambien esta la ISC que usa mucho OpenBSD, todas ellas son compatibles con las licencias de GNU de GPL -<@quiliro> LuxFer: El punto general es que la licencia determina qué puede hacer el usuario con el software -[14:13]<@quiliro> LightBearer: ¿puedes explicar, en tus propias palabras por qué hemos decidido re-escribir el software para ponerlo con otra licencia? -<@quiliro> LightBearer: yo te complemento -[14:14] tienen que tener claro que hay dentro del mundo del SL dos tipos de licencias, la de copyleft que son centradas de preservar dicha licencias en las modificaciones, redistribuciones y forks, mientras las permisivas no garanten eso, dados que no tienen obigacion de distribuir el codigo modificado, ni redistribuirlos y hacer forks con la misma licencia (ej. las modificaciones pueden tornarse software no libre) -[14:15]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: creo que debemos empezar de forma más sencilla -<@quiliro> no es común que las personas sepan para qué sirven las licencias -[14:16]<@quiliro> por eso le pedía a LightBearer que lo explique, ya que ella tiene una idea mejor porque recién conoció esto -[14:19] Hyperbola es un sistema operativo, este sirve como plataforma para instalar los programas en una compu - quiliro: ok, quedo en el aguardo de cualquier pregunta - ahora bien este sistema operativo tiene una licencia -[14:20]<@quiliro> exactamente - y vamos a mejorarla para que funcione mejor y sea más moderno y por eso asciende de nombre a BSD y se va a llamar al final: HyperbolaBSD -<@quiliro> todo software tiene una licencia -[14:21]<@quiliro> esta última frase no fue correcta, LightBearer - entonces? -<@quiliro> lo anterior estaba muy bien -<@quiliro> ok -<@quiliro> usamos otro sistema operativo como base -[14:22] quiliro: no siempre un software precisa tener licencia, para ese caso, si no dispone de tal, sucede que es software no libre -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.es.html#NoLicense -<@quiliro> ese otro sistema operativo se llama OpenBSI -<@quiliro> ese otro sistema operativo se llama OpenBSD -<@quiliro> sí… Emulatorman tocaré ese tema más tarde -[14:23]<@quiliro> quiero explicar en forma general por ahora para no complicar los asuntos - es decir que el “original” es HyperbolaBSI y va a cambiar con las modificaciones que hagan con nuestra ayuda a HyperbolaBSD¿ -[14:24]<@quiliro> me equivoqué cuando dije BSI -<@quiliro> es OpenBSD -<@quiliro> el original -<@quiliro> LuxFer: comprende lo que queremos hacer? -[14:25]<@quiliro> HyperbolaBSD es nuestro sistema - Si, hasta ahora con tu explicación tome una idea mas clara -<@quiliro> quitaremos partes que no son libres a OpenBSD -[14:26]<@quiliro> y las reemplazaremos con partes que escribiremos nosotros -<@quiliro> para eso, necesitamos personas dispuestas a aprender y que quieran colaborar con el proyecto -[14:27]<@quiliro> será una experiencia muy educativa y del mundo práctico - Ok, hasta aqui todo claro y entendido - Con respecto a eso -<@quiliro> porque es una aplicación del mundo real en cómo se construyen los sistemas -<@quiliro> es una gran oportunidad que nos dan Emulatorman y coadde - quiero enfatizar aqui que tambien quitaremos las partes que no son compatibles, porque si bien no son compatibles, son codigo libre, pero no serviran con el modelo de desarrollo que vamos hacer -[14:28]<@quiliro> puedes explicar en el modo más sencillo posible por qué no son compatibles? - y al ser SL respetan los 4 principios del SL -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ^ - Entonces en terminos “sencillos” se reemplazara todo lo que afecte de cierta forma al SO? -[14:29]<@quiliro> exactamente LightBearer - ok quiliro explico - existen dos modos de hacer SL -<@quiliro> “lo que afecte” en seguridad y en libertad, LuxFer -[14:30]<@quiliro> en sencillez estructural también - una es brindar las 4 libertades y que todos sus descendientes y futuras modificaciones sean garantizadas las 4 libertades - Entendido quiliro -[14:31] la otra es brindar las 4 libertades en la version original, pero no obligar que sus descendientes y futuras modificaciones tengan que seguir las 4 libertades -<@quiliro> un momento por favor, Emulatorman - la incompatibilidad entre los diferentes modos pueden ocurrir cuando hay incoherencia en los modos de uso -<@quiliro> quiero explicar qué significa eso -[14:32] si por favor - ej. uno dice que el software no obligue a colocar publicidad del autor, mientras el otro dice que debe de ser obligatorio - entonces produce un efecto de incompatibilidad -<@quiliro> LuxFer: conoce cuáles son las 4 libertades que proporcionan las licencias libres y para qué sirve eso? -[14:33]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: por favor dame solamente un par de minutos para este tema - ok - quiliro cuales son, justo las acabo de leer - para que sirven, no en especifico - quedo en el aguardo quiliro -[14:34]<@quiliro> Richard Stallman, en su conferencia, lo explica muy bien… tiene usted el vínculo…pero en resumen: -<@quiliro> si un software es libre, el usuario lo controla -[14:35]<@quiliro> si un software no es libre, el usuario es controlado por el software…y el software es controlado por su dueño -<@quiliro> por eso es importante usar software libre…para no ser "usado" -[14:36]<@quiliro> LuxFer: ¿Está claro ahora por qué usar software libre? -<@quiliro> LuxFer: ¿y para qué sirve? - Totalmente claro -<@quiliro> ok -[14:37]<@quiliro> puedo explicar ahora cómo verificar si es software libre, LuxFer - Estoy atento - yo también -<@quiliro> si tiene 4 libertades esenciales, es software libre: -[14:38] siempre deben haber las 4? si falta una ya no es SL? -<@quiliro> 0. se puede usar para cualquier objetivo en cualquier número de equipos -<@quiliro> así es, LightBearer -[14:39]<@quiliro> si le falta una libertad, el dueño controla al software - OK -<@quiliro> y si el dueño controla a nuestro software…. - El software nos controla a nosotros -<@quiliro> nosotros no somos usuarios sino usados -<@quiliro> exactamente! -[14:40]<@quiliro> continúo con las otras 3 libertades - una forma de controlarnos es el tener acceso a nuestra información? -<@quiliro> muy bien, LightBearer -[14:41]<@quiliro> por eso es importante la segunda libertad: - y cómo puedo saber si mi información ya está en poder de otros (que yo no conozco?) -<@quiliro> 1. debe poderse modificar el software -[14:42]<@quiliro> ese es un tema complejo -<@quiliro> LightBearer: ^ -<@quiliro> se llama seguridad informática - que quiere decir ese síbolo - que es como un techo? -[14:43]<@quiliro> es como una flecha que apunta al texto que escribí antes, LightBearer - es la segunda vez que lo veo - ok, gracias -<@quiliro> es que olvidé poner su nick en esa línea…disculpe - go on please -<@quiliro> por eso lo puse después…OK -[14:44] pensé que era un error tipográfico -<@quiliro> jaja -[14:45]<@quiliro> la libertad 1 o segunda libertad (empezando desde 0) permite hacer que un software haga nuevas cosas o deje de hacer cosas que yo deseo evitar -<@quiliro> es la modificación - la 1 es modificar el software (es lo que vamos a hacer con los expertos) - Es lo que vamos a hacer ¿Verdad? - Modificar -[14:46] la libertad 1 es lo que practicamente vamos hacer en HyperbolaBSD en la primera etapa -<@quiliro> así que si un software roba mi información y se la envía a otro, puedo recuperar mi poder sobre mí informática, si pido cambiarlo o lo cambio yo mismo -<@quiliro> pero para eso necesita la libertad 1 - perfecto -[14:47]<@quiliro> los software que no podemos modificar, debemos escribir desde 0 -<@quiliro> porque si no se nos permite modificar, hacen lo que quiere otro y no nosotros - la verdad vamos a crear nuevo codigo C y no modificar (que preserva la licencia) en HyperbolaBSD. -[14:48]<@quiliro> esas partes que no son libres porque violan cualquiera de las 4 libertades, reemplazaremos - ok coadde, gracias por la corrección -[14:49]<@quiliro> y otras más por otras razones que describiremos luego - perdón ya me confundí qué es el código C? -<@quiliro> lo importante es que reemplazaremos partes incompatibles con la libertad -[14:50]<@quiliro> es correcto, en términos generales lo que he descrito hasta ahora, coadde ? -<@quiliro> LightBearer: gracias por la pregunta -[14:51] quiliro: si -<@quiliro> el lenguaje C es un lenguaje para dar instrucciones a la computadora…es un lenguaje muy poderoso -[14:52]<@quiliro> aunque es un poco complejo, brinda gran ayuda para entender cómo funcionan los computadores -<@quiliro> y da una perspectiva excelente para tomar decisiones inclusive en otros lenguajes de programación -[14:53] Todo HyperbolaBSD se basa en codigo C? -<@quiliro> coadde: puedes contestar esa pregunta por favor… -[14:55]<@quiliro> o Emulatorman si coadde está ocupado - quiliro: coadde esta escribiendo… - y le contestará -<@quiliro> oh…lo siento -<@quiliro> no quise apresurarlo - ok :) -[14:56] hasta mientras, quiliro, puedes indicarnos las 2 principios que nos faltan? -<@quiliro> claro - por favor - tenemos 0 uso, 1 modificar -[14:57]<@quiliro> exactamente -<@quiliro> la libertad 2 o tercera libertad trata de la redistribución (copia exacta) del software - LuxFer: la verdad no, la mayoría de los archivos esta escrito en C, pero algunos tiene código de ensamblador, "device tree" y "Makefiles". -[14:58] Y esos archivos tambien seran modificados? - En dado cason ¿Se nos mostrará cómo? -[14:59]<@quiliro> que se ilumine a quienes quieran ver, ¿no es cierto, LightBearer ? - si -[15:00] aquí hay dos luces yo y lux - Nunca mejor dicho jaja -<@quiliro> sí, jaja -<@quiliro> se mostrará a quien quiera poner el empeño de aprender - el sol se queda chiquito al lado de l@s dos -[15:01]<@quiliro> así noto! - LuxFer: el ensamblador es código de hardware especifico (como ARM o x86), “device tree” es para un driver o dispositivo especifico y el “Makefile” es para que puedas compilar el software. - y el último principio Qúiliro - quiliro: una pregunta, hoy viene profeluchito? -<@quiliro> eso debemos preguntar a LuxFer, Emulatorman - ok - Pues realmente vengo con muchas ganas de poder aprender -[15:02] ¿Yo? -<@quiliro> sí, sabe algo de él - Creo que se refieren a mi docente - si a él - LuxFer: segun tu ultima pregunta, vi que algunos codigos de ensamblador y Makefiles hay que hacerlos -<@quiliro> sí, ese es su nick - PUe sjusto ahorita me dijo que tuvo inconvenientes -[15:03]<@quiliro> ok, LuxFer … gracias - Y no va a poder conectarse - ohh lo extrañamos, nos hace falta. -<@quiliro> sí, jeje -<@quiliro> me falta la última libertad - Pues muy bien, hasta ahora tengo todas las ideas claras - LuxFer: no me acuerdo si de los “device tree” -[15:04] Es decir que si habra que hacerlos -<@quiliro> la libertad de redistribución (la anterior) es importante porque así se puede tener la posibilidad de compartir el software y tener independencia del autor -<@quiliro> con lo cual tenemos libertad - profeluchito manda sus disculpas y como les comento, tuvo un inconveniente de improvisto -[15:05]<@quiliro> la última libertad, la cuarta (libertad 3) trata de distribuir el software modificado… -[15:06] LuxFer: los “device tree” ya no es necesario. -<@quiliro> gracias por notificarnos, LuxFer -[15:07] coadde entendido - Un placer - LuxFer: mandale saludos a profeluchito y que lo esperamos el lunes a la misma hora. - Listo ya lo haré - ok esas son las 4 libertades del SL: 0 uso, 1 modificar, 2 redistribuir (copia exacta) y 3 distribuir el software modificado. -[15:08]<@quiliro> sin esa última libertad, podría el fabricante controlar que no cambiemos el software en lo que podamo aportar a otros…no podremos regalar ni vender el software al que arreglemos o quitemos cosas malas o aumentemos funciones - exacto LightBearer - chévere, está claro para mí y para tí lux -<@quiliro> si un software provee esas cuatro derechos -[15:09] Totalmente claro y entendido hasta ahora -<@quiliro> entonces da libertad al usuario -<@quiliro> y el usuario controla su computador - Y controlamos al software en vez de que el nos controle a nosotros -<@quiliro> y no es controlado por él -<@quiliro> perfectamente comprendido - sabes que al verlo como derechos, me conmocionó al saber que el software privativo atenta contra mi integridad -[15:10]<@quiliro> LightBearer: cuando alguien no sabe que no es libre, no busca la libertad - en resumen es asi LightBearer -<@quiliro> cuando la prueba, ya nunca quiere otra cosa - si, al verlo como libertades o principios no me llegó al alma, pero “derechos” eso si despertó mi autoestima. -<@quiliro> aunque sea incomoda -[15:11] Sin embargo ¿Es facl conseguir una buena libertad? - O siempre habrá que crearla? - como es eso? - en resumen LightBearer, HyperbolaBSD será el primer sistema operativo descendiente de BSD que garantizara las 4 libertades -<@quiliro> qué es una buena libertad? hay malas? - Poniendolo como ejemplo -[15:12] Yo antes de todo esto pensaba que era "libre" sin embargo veo que hay muchos factores que atentan con mi integridad -<@quiliro> es una migración de pieza en pieza, LuxFer - yo creo que el peor atentado es desconocer tus derechos, porque no te das cuenta de lo que sucede contigo. -[15:13] Pero si quiero buscar ahora una “Buena libertad” la opcion mas cercana es HyperbolaBSD cosa que esta siendo creada, ahora uniendome a ella - Nos endulzamos con la clase, estuvo linda, gracias por su paciencia profes. - Bastante cierto LightBearer - Muchas gracias en verdad -[15:14]<@quiliro> LuxFer: aun no entiendo a qué se refiere con "buena libertad" - Me es dificil expresarla en palabras -<@quiliro> un ejemplo? - Lo siento, quiza lo pueda explicar mejor en otra ocasion - LuxFer que tal si riegas la voz entre tus compañer@s para que vengan mañana a las 2 pm en punto. -[15:15] a este espacio… -<@quiliro> antes, como usted LuxFer - Creanme que ya intente convencerlos. Pero es complicado, sin embargo, lo intentare nuevamente - ok -<@quiliro> en grupo se aprende más rápidamente -<@quiliro> ok -[15:16]<@quiliro> no hay problema, LuxFer -<@quiliro> con que venga usted, es excelene -<@quiliro> excelente - Son todos los dias las reuniones? -<@quiliro> lunes a viernes - Muy bien, entendido -<@quiliro> 14h00 UTC-5 -[15:17]<@quiliro> eso quiere decir hora continental ecuatoriana -<@quiliro> es que Emulatorman y coadde están en otra zona horaria - ok, la nuestras es UTC-3 -[15:18] *nuestra - seria 16h00 UTC-3 para mi y coadde -[15:19]<@quiliro> estudiantes: por favor, miren el vídeo de Richard Stallman y lean la entrevista en castellano - si LuxFer, sería bueno que vinieran mas compañeros su fuera posible, no precisan que vengan siempre, mientras sea en lo posible, los dias que puedan en la semana, así vamos organizando los grupos -[15:20]<@quiliro> necesitamos sus preguntas para poder hacer un resumen ejecutivo más pequeño - ok -[15:21] quiliro lo haré - Emulatorman Por su puesto, los intentare traer - quiliro: te gustaría que coadde hiciera una wiki con el "roadmap" de Hyperbola, incluyendo la lista de archivos para programar, grupos planeados, etc? -<@quiliro> en unos minutos reviso la contraseña del link -<@quiliro> para arreglarla -[15:22]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: eso sería excelente - Otra pregunta ¿Esto es fase de introducción aun? -[15:23]<@quiliro> LuxFer: estamos siguiendo el ritmo de ustedes - LuxFer: si seria genial, para nosotros ir armando los grupos, la estructura de acceso, mientras quiliro va guiandolos ahora en esta parte - LuxFer: no me gusta particularmente a mi, dejar la parte mia y de coadde a ultima hora, cuando ya esta todo el grupo, o futuros voluntarios listo para empezar, por eso queremos ganar tiempo para ir armando todo -<@quiliro> estábamos por cubrir otra cosa con coadde hoy - Claro, entiendo - El codigo - cierto - El primer ejemplo lo entiendo -[15:24]<@quiliro> exactamente, LuxFer - quiliro: de mi parte pienso que una wiki de roadmap dejara claro donde estamos pisando y como vamos evolucionando, ademas beneficia a la comunidad en general para ver como va yendo la evolucion de HyperbolaBSD de una forma mas simplificada para entender - El segundo si tengo una idea, pero no tan clara -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: prefería un git -[15:25] quiliro: no puedes acceder a la wiki de Hyperbola? -<@quiliro> ok…entonces, no estamos tan novatos, LuxFer - No, en tema codigo no tanto - Me muevo inicial en lenguaje C - quiliro: si vamos migrar los repos de git HyperbolaBSD a un nuevo link -[15:26]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: es que uso solamente eww de Emacs como navegador - Pero como te comento, logro entender la idea -<@quiliro> y usualmente los wikis requieren de javascript, que no uso - quiliro: ok, no hay problema -[15:27] quiliro: probaste el nuestro, esta verificado con javascript libres. pero mismo asi, hacemos una version en formato markdown para que puedas leerlo directamente desde el git -[15:28] cualquier aplicacion abre formatos markdown y son muy ligeros -<@quiliro> por favor, estudiantes, también leer los otros links que hay en https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ cuando arregle la contraseña, en unos minutos -<@quiliro> o quite la contraseña -<@quiliro> wordpress es una vaina -<@quiliro> por eso prefiero html plano -[15:29]<@quiliro> ya no les molesto con mis problemas informáticos personales, jeje -[15:30] aqui quiliro, tienes el articulo que hicimos en la wiki de estilo de codigo de BSD convertido en markdown en el codigo fuente -> https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/hyperbolabsd/hyperbk.git/plain/CODING_STYLE.md -[15:32] eso es para usuarios como tu, que no usan javascript y ni navegadores web - *navegadores web con javascript -<@quiliro> gracias por el acompañamiento personal, Emulatorman -[15:33]<@quiliro> lo revisaré luego de lograr entrar al wordpress -[15:34] quiliro: creo que hay aplicaciones que abren markdown que son ligeros - coadde? ^ - https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MarkdownMode ? - ahi tienes quiliro ^ -[15:35]<@quiliro> puedo ver markdown bien en emacs -<@quiliro> es todo colorido! - si te sirve, hacemos el roadmap todo en markdown -<@quiliro> lo mejor sería en org - perdón ya me confund - i -<@quiliro> es más sencillo - me repiten la tarea para mi y lux -[15:36]<@quiliro> solamente necesitas asteriscos -[15:37] LightBearer creo que solo leer el link -<@quiliro> LightBearer, LuxFer : la tarea para mañana es hacer preguntas y sugerencias para hacer un documento introductorio sobre estos temas que hemos cubierto en los links y en el chat - Entendido -[15:38]<@quiliro> en resumen…tienen que poder describir lo cubierto por nosotros pero como si fuesen el profesor, jeje -<@quiliro> ¿creen que puedan? -<@quiliro> ya les he hecho el resumen -[15:39]<@quiliro> lo que necesitan es poder explicárselo a otros - Lo intentaré, pero si creo poder -<@quiliro> si ven los links, podrán empaparse más del tema -<@quiliro> excelente, LuxFer - eso es todo? -[15:40] ok -<@quiliro> LuxFer: es cierto que eso no es programación aún pero todo programa es cubierto por el derecho de autor…así que es algo esencial -[15:41]<@quiliro> y los derechos como usuario de software es algo muy importante a tener en cuenta para todo programador o usuario en general -<@quiliro> gracias por venir y lamento que se ha alargado tanto la clase -[15:42] No, l entiendo y en realidad agradezco la paciencia para enseñar todo lo que no estaba claro -<@quiliro> me ha gustado mucho en particular la clase de hoy porque hemos sido precisos por la ayuda de coadde y de Emulatorman - Y vuelvo a decir, será un gusto trabajar a su lado -[15:43]<@quiliro> :-) -<@quiliro> estará el link en unos minutos, espero -<@quiliro> por favor no salgan para que reciban la notificación -[15:44]<@quiliro> de cuando ya esté listo - bueno -[15:46]<@quiliro> le envié un mensaje privado, LuxFer -[15:49]<@quiliro> gracias por los datos LuxFer -<@quiliro> ahora me dedico al link -[16:07]<@quiliro> no puedo entrar al servidor -[16:08]<@quiliro> es que está con una estructura que es sencilla de manejar -para un novato pero difícil de mantener porque es insegura -[16:13]<@quiliro> LuxFer, LightBearer, Emulatorman, coadde : la contraseña es c u c h u f l e t a -<@quiliro> sin espacios -<@quiliro> pero aun no puedo incluir los cambios de hoy -[16:14] ok -<@quiliro> tengo problemas para ingresar al servidor web como administrador - ok, pude entrar -[16:15]<@quiliro> que alivio, LightBearer y Emulatorman -<@quiliro> no quiero quedar mal con ustedes -[16:16] quiliro: entonces quedamos de hacer reuniones de lunes a viernes de 14:00-17:00 (UTC-5), no? - digo, así ya me organizo bien con este tema. -[16:17]<@quiliro> mejor solamente 2 horas máximo -<@quiliro> es lo que hemos hecho antes - además ya le dijimos a lux 2 horas - ok - y al profeluchito -<@quiliro> mejor solamente 1 hora -<@quiliro> para que no sea tan pesado - sisi una hora le dijimos -[16:18] entonces 14:00-15:00 (UTC-5) - si asi quedamos - ok - mejor - hasta mañana entonces. -<@quiliro> por eso lo mejor es revisar todo fuera de esa hora, privadamente cada uno - claro, es mejor así -[16:20]<@quiliro> LuxFer: acá - Si, no logro ver los mensajes anteriores -[16:21]<@quiliro> LightBearer: puedes por favor darle los datos de el link? - OK -<@quiliro> el que mandé con contraseña -[16:22]<@quiliro> https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ c u c h u f l e t a - nosotros (coadde y yo), vamos a empezar hacer el roadmap de HyperbolaBSD, colocando el TODO (tareas a hacer), y los distintos grupos/equipos para realizar las distintas partes del desarrollo. -[16:23] primero en markdown con git -<@quiliro> sin espacios la contraseña, LuxFer - y luego una versión adaptada para la wiki, para los usuarios ver - desde la web -[16:24] el idioma deberia ser el inglés - despues podemos de ahi hacer las versiones traducidas, etc - pero pensé que la principal se mantenga en ingles como es la wiki - Listo creo que ya pude entrar -<@quiliro> ok…no han considerado el usar los encabezados con * como org-mode? -[16:25] ya pude entrar -[16:26]<@quiliro> ok…ahí están los chats de los otros días -<@quiliro> no el de hoy - ok -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: OK -<@quiliro> que pena que hayan perdido el chat… -<@quiliro> ya no pueden revisar -[16:27]<@quiliro> mientras yo no consiga subir el texto - quiliro: pienso que markdown es un estandar, pero no conozco el "org-mode" -[16:28]<@quiliro> org-mode también es estándar…y es más sencillo… solamente se requiere de asteriscos -[16:29]<@quiliro> https://orgmode.org/ - si, pero acepta tablas? -<@quiliro> claro -<@quiliro> solamente usas | para separar columnas -<@quiliro> y ya -[16:30]<@quiliro> en emacs reconoce automaticamente y avanzas por columnas con tab -<@quiliro> creo que en vi podría también ser posible -[16:31]<@quiliro> para hacer un título tipo h1, h2, h3 se usa *, **, *** - seria bueno que funcionara fuera de emacs -<@quiliro> funciona en todo editor de texto -[16:32] reconocera el formato de ese tipo en otras aplicaciones, o leerá literalmente? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_document-markup_languages -[16:33]<@quiliro> https://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3642 -[16:34] luxfer estás allí? -[16:35]<@quiliro> wow…que cantidad de formatos de marcado, coadde - org no visualiza en navegadores web con salida XHTML por lo que veo… -[16:37]<@quiliro> por qué? es texto -<@quiliro> casi ni se nota el marcado -<@quiliro> por ejemplo tengo esto - coadde: para formatos “.md” agarra el org? digo esto porque es mas facil y comun mantener en .md para codigos fuentes. normalmente estaba acostumbrado a ver markdown en distintos codigos fuentes. Ej. github agarra bien los .md de markdown. Nunca vi en org - quiliro: no precisamente quiero colocar apenas texto, quiero colocar logos, etc -[16:38]<@quiliro> * PENDIENTE TODO Compostera -<@quiliro> ** TODO Tapa de compostera -<@quiliro> *** TODO Desarmar poliestireno expandido usado -<@quiliro> *** Sánduche de concreto -<@quiliro> ***** DONE Experimentar sánduche de concreto (concreto alivianado forrado con capas de concreto fuerte). Detallado en <2020-01-13 lun> de bitácora.org . -<@quiliro> ***** DONE Desencofrar sánduche de concreto -<@quiliro> SCHEDULED: <2020-02-13 ĵaŭ> -<@quiliro> *** TODO Tejer anillo pequeño con malla del anillo grande. -<@quiliro> *** TODO Fundir concreto alivianado entre anillo grande y anillo pequeño. -<@quiliro> *** TODO Diseñar fondo batible para compostera. -<@quiliro> **** TODO Buscar dibujo de fondo batible hecho por papá -<@quiliro> *** DONE Diseñar método para evitar las moscas -<@quiliro> **** Separar tapar completamente para secar -<@quiliro> **** PENDIENTE Evitar paja -<@quiliro> * PENDIENTE TODO GNUS -<@quiliro> ** DONE Añadir SMTPS al correo. -<@quiliro> ** TODO Aprender a clasificar correo en carpetas -<@quiliro> ** TODO Aprender a calificar spam -<@quiliro> ** TODO Cambiar carpeta predeterminada de correos enviados. -<@quiliro> -<@quiliro> uff - quiliro: o links que puntea imagenes y logos, etc -<@quiliro> siento la inundación del canal -[16:39]<@quiliro> sí puede manejar links a varios protocolos y archivos - eso es bueno saber - y que se lea por web - porque muchos usuarios gustan de leer por web -[16:40]<@quiliro> no sabía que era mas fácil markdown para web - el README.md que hicimos en markdown pusimos logo, con links y redireccionamientos a otros archivos, entonces le haces click y vas a los archivos directamente -<@quiliro> pero sé que se puede manejar hasta código de varios lenguajes dentro con org-babel -[16:41]<@quiliro> y puedes exportar a latex inclusive - quiliro: ok, veré la sintaxis de org, y vemos que hacer -<@quiliro> tanto como a otros muchos formatos como html con css incluso -[16:42]<@quiliro> pero si hace su trabajo más complejo, olvídalo…era solamente mi criterio menos experimentado que el de ustedes en esa area -[16:44]<@quiliro> además, no soy experto en org -[16:45]<@quiliro> pero se puede aprender rápidamente, por eso lo conozco…jeje -[16:46]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: disculpa…no quiero imponer mi criterio…a veces me dejo llevar por lo que me entusiasma -<@quiliro> coadde: por favor no lo tomen como requisito -<@quiliro> mi requisito único es que sea software libre -<@quiliro> y ese compromiso sé que ustedes lo tienen -[16:47] ok, vemos cual es el mejor, lo vamos a tomar en cuenta el org - nosotros somos abiertos a todas las opciones - mientras sea software libre -<@quiliro> por eso quiero mostrar a los estudiantes lo que considero mejor, que es su proyecto -[16:48]<@quiliro> que bien -<@quiliro> creo que hay como transformar entre org y markdown -[16:49]<@quiliro> lo que veo mejor de org es que los encabezados son contraíbles -<@quiliro> entonces es sencillo ver lo general -<@quiliro> y entender todo desde un vistazo -[16:50]* quiliro ya está entusiasmado de nuevo…ufff -<@quiliro> 8-| -<@quiliro> mejor me callo, jeje -[16:51]<@quiliro> ahora, en serio, gracias por su colaboración -<@quiliro> es muy importante su participación -<@quiliro> tanto de los estudiantes como de los profesores -[16:53] jaja, ok, esta bien, soy muy abierto a escuchar ideas -[16:54] bueno, coadde va arrancar haciendo un boceto del roadmap y lo que venimos haciendo de codigo nuevo hasta ahora - y los grupos y etapas por hacer en el desarrollo -[16:55] despues yo hago los ajustes para dejarlo lo mas humanamente legible posible jeje - y hago una version para la wiki de Hyperbola para los usuarios leer y acompañar, asi podemos ganar nuevos voluntarios para juntarse -[16:56] al mismo tiempo, haremos un nuevo subdominio https://hyperbolabsd.hyperbola.info para dejar los repos de HyperbolaBSD y asi dar acceso a los voluntarios para poder subir codigo -[16:57] y también para aquellos que van a integrar al equipo, el poder otorgarles una direccion de correo @hyperbola.info - ejemplo: quiliro@hyperbola.info -[16:58] y despues armar el plantel de equipo en el staff de aquellos que deciden quedar definitivamente en el equipo -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/developers/ -[16:59] y los que no van a estar desarrollando pero si en el soporte de orientación, guiar los grupos etc en -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/ -[17:00] esto es sumamente importante porque asi la comunidad sabe en quien confiar que el codigo esta siendo hecho por gente de confianza - y que los que trabajan en el equipo tambien son parte de Hyperbola -[17:02] si la universidad confirma el apoyo del grupo de voluntarios para el desarrollo de HyperbolaBSD, podemos hacer anuncio oficial y publicitación de la universidad en la web como banner en la web principal, como se aprecia en la lista a la derecha (ej. similar como esta Libreware) https://www.hyperbola.info/ -[17:03] asi es tambien otra forma para que la comunidad esté al tanto y que confian en los integrantes que participan en el desarrollo -<@quiliro> buenos planes -<@quiliro> no tenemos universidades oficialmente involucradas -[17:04] me encargo de todo esto, pero preciso hacer todo con anticipación -<@quiliro> es un poco burocrático eso por acá - quiliro: ok, en ese caso, podemos integrar apenas los interesados que van a participar, con los correos @hyperbola.info e integrar al staff -[17:05]<@quiliro> felicitaciones, Emulatorman…. es una buena cualidad -<@quiliro> puede ofrecer pertenencia….pero debe ser muy sencillo de usar -[17:06]<@quiliro> ya el chat es difícil que entren -<@quiliro> sin embargo, cuando la gente toma confianza, aprende a hacerlo y puede irse integrando cuando necesite las herramientas - si, es muy importante la pertenencia, permite que la gente le tome cariño al proyecto y no se aburren ni se asustan de aprender algo nuevo (será que hablo por mí)? -<@quiliro> jaja -[17:07] quiliro: ok, despues pasame un perfil tuyo para agregarte a ti al staff -<@quiliro> puede ser, LightBearer -<@quiliro> ok…le podemos dar al que pida y haya colaborado en algo -[17:08]<@quiliro> como lo ha hecho LightBearer - y a LightBearer (anacleta?) -<@quiliro> es mejor que cada cual pida -<@quiliro> así no hace algo porque sin querer hacerlo - tu LuxFer estas interesad en integrar al equipo? -[17:09]<@quiliro> debemos ver que LuxFer aporte mañana… -<@quiliro> estoy seguro de que lo hará - ok - de mientras hago el perfil tuyo y de anacleta -<@quiliro> como lo ha hecho LightBearer -[17:10] pero preciso de que me manden lo que van a poner en el perfil -<@quiliro> formulario? - quiliro: -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#heckyel -<@quiliro> la principal es saber para qué nos sirve - ese es el de heckyel, puedes usar de modelo de ejemplo -<@quiliro> ok -[17:11] es importante, porque los usuarios van ahi siempre para saber de donde vienen las ayudas y contribuciones oficiales de Hyperbola -<@quiliro> para relevar la pertenencia al equipo? o para algo más? -<@quiliro> oh -<@quiliro> ok -[17:12] ponen el link +@hyperbola.info asi ya armo el correo -> ejemplo: quiliro@hyperbola.info - por lo pronto no veo otro valor. será que al verlo de cerca es mejor - y hay cosas de más fortaleza. -[17:14] me envian el perfil a emulatorman@hyperbola.info -[17:15] creo, me parece que esto va a ayudar a que la gente se sienta comprometido a trabajar hasta el último minuto -[17:16] LightBearer: claro, ademas de que si alguien quiere preguntar algo a alguien que se esta encargando de una parte en especial, va ahi -[17:19] bueno, voy a dar una salida. -[17:20] quiliro:LightBearer: despues me pasan el perfil basado en de heckyel -> https://www.hyperbola.info/members/support-staff/#heckyel - a emulatorman@hyperbola.info -[17:22]<@quiliro> ok Emulatorman - nos vemos mañana, cualquier cosa mi cuenta es online 24 horas, me dejan un mensaje en el hyperbot alla en #hyperbola -~~~~ -
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-_Click on me to see_ -## Meet 2 - 2021-04-06 - -~~~~{.irc} -<@quiliro> hola janaxpachapuka -[11:15]<@quiliro> me gustaría invitarte a la reunión que habrá hoy a las 14h00 -<@quiliro> en esta sala -[13:26] hola quiliro - estoy aqui ayudando a coadde a conectarse por irc, asi participa de la reunion -[13:35]<@quiliro> hola Emulatorman …excente noticia -<@quiliro> excelente -[13:36]<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: ¿Estás presente? Te tengo noticias. -[13:41] Hola -[13:45]*** Users on #asle: Anacleta @quiliro janaxpachapuka Emulatorman @torshido void09 -<@quiliro> hola Anacleta -[13:48] Hola -<@quiliro> Hola janaxpachapuka -[13:49]<@quiliro> Hablé con D8a - ¿qué dice? -<@quiliro> me dijo que en estos días va a ponerse al día con lo que le has pedido -[13:50]<@quiliro> que no había podido porque se cambió de casa - Que bueno -<@quiliro> bueno, siempre tiene alguna excusa…jeje -[13:51]<@quiliro> dijo que también iba a pedir que firmen las actas y de entregar al senescyt -<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: en pocos minutos empieza la reunión -bisemanal que hacemos para reclutar practicantes -[13:52] ¿con quinenes? -<@quiliro> además, con unos alumnos de un instituto en manta -<@quiliro> y un profesor de quito que era su profesor -[13:53]<@quiliro> además asistirán los desarrolladores principales de HyperbolaBSD -<@quiliro> es muy emocionante -[13:59] y yo Ana Lucía de quiliro -[14:10]<@quiliro> hola -<@quiliro> voy a escribir al profesor -[14:13]<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: ¿Viste el correo que envié a D 8a con copia a directiva? - No pero puedo revisar ahorita -<@quiliro> Envié hace unos días -[14:15]<@quiliro> Anacleta: para continuar contigo y valorar tu puntualidad, me gustaría revisar tus dudas -<@quiliro> por cierto, gracias Anacleta -<@quiliro> por ser puntual -[14:16] Emulatorman: el GPL puede ser usado en lugar de GNU? esta sobre entendido? -[14:18] Anacleta: GNU seria el espacio de usuario del sistema GNU con Linux, y GPL es la licencia que se aplica en el modo de uso del software -<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: mandé a la lista de correo pública de ASLE unos vínculos que proveen infomación introductoria para los practicantes -<@quiliro> ya paso el enlace -[14:19] quiliro: caso el profesor no aparezca hoy, la proxima reunión queda para el jueves? Digo esto porque el martes estoy complicado de tiempo -[14:20] ¿Quién cataloga a un software como S.L.? Es algo así como que es sobre entendido o debe registrarse en algún sitio -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: profeluis dijo que podía lunes y jueves creo -[14:21] quiliro: ok - Anacleta: un software se califica como libre cuando es aplicado las licencias que otorga las 4 libertades dentro de la misma. -[14:22] Anacleta: tanto sea una licencia de izquierdo de autor, como las permisivas. -[14:23] el izquierdo de autor es la “c” al revés? - Anacleta: la diferencia entre una licencia copyleft y una copyfree (permisivas), es que la primera exige que todas las modificaciones, redistribuciones y forks (versiones basadas del original) sigan con la misma licencia -[14:24] la segunda, solo garantiza las 4 libertades en el codigo principal, pero sus modificaciones, redistribuciones o forks, no necesariamente necesitan seguir la misma licencia, inclusive ni es necesario divulgar el codigo -[14:25] razon por el cual empresas como Sony, usan BSD modificados en sus PlayStation, o como Google que usa versiones modificados de Chromium y lanzan como Chrome como no libre. -<@quiliro> por eso es mejor la C al revés….garantiza que no se pueda volver ese código privativo - ambos casos, esas versiones modificadas no son libres, cuando el codigo original si lo es -[14:26] ya entiendo un poco mejor - gracias - por eso hubo mucho drama y discusión con el hecho del surgimiento del proyecto HyperbolaBSD, pues seria el primer sistema descendiente de BSD desarrollado con licencias copyleft -[14:27] Emulatorman: Si puedo modificar un SL, como pueden evitar que yo me adueñe de él? y diga que es mi propiedad intelectual¿? - para muchos de la vieja escuela de BSD sonó como un insulto y falta de respecto a BSD, dado que ese sistema fue concebido para ser un sistema operativo 100% permisivo -[14:28] pero como es libre, no hay nada ilegal de desarrollar codigo de cero bajo GPL, es un tema de paradigmas y apenas fanatismo desnecesario -[14:29]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ¿O sea que les molesta más a los BSD que con su código se haga un sistema libre que no se pueda hacer privativo, a que se haga un sistema privativo? - por eso insisto que nuestra estrategia es basado en el "Oceano Azul" de hacer algo que sea diferente de lo que se hace ahora (sistemas GNU con licencias de GNU y BSD con licencias de BSD), HyperbolaBSD seria un hibrido, por asi resumir, seria un BSD con licencias de GNU en sus bases. -[14:30] Emulatorman: qué es el proyecto trident (me suena a chicle) - quiliro: exacto, el origen de BSD es tener una base de codigo libre, pero permisivo, para insentivar empresas como Sony, Nintendo y Google usar esos codigos como base para sus futuros sistemas privativos -[14:31] de ahi, esas empresas los "sustentan" a ellos con capital, para poder en fin ahorrar trabajo y redistribuirlo como privativo -[14:32]<@quiliro> nadie mencionó trident, Anacleta -<@quiliro> solamente blue ocean - estuve leyendo una entrevista a Emulatorman y allí mencionaron ese proyecto - el hecho es que si existe HyperbolaBSD, podria ocasionar que parte de esos voluntarios, usuarios o comunidad de BSD se sientan motivados por hacer codigo GPL, dado que es protegido las modificaciones con las 4 libertades. Eso en parte podria afectar a los demas *BSD -[14:33] podria afectar por el hecho que ellos usan licencias no compatibles con GNU (ej. Original-BSD (BSD-4)). -[14:38] y dado que si existiria HyperbolaBSD, las futuras implementaciones funcionarian solo en entornos GNU con kernels nativos de GNU (ej. GNU/Hurd), pero no en entornos con el kernel Linux, solo si esos desarrolladores lo licencien bajo GPL-2. Si la comunidad comienza a desarrollar todo en GPL-3 en HyperbolaBSD, podria pasar 2 cosas a esos proyectos (kernel Linux y BSD*), una es no usar nuestro codigo para sus - proyectos, o eliminar codigo incompatible con la GPL-3 (ej, Linux kernel eliminar las licencias GPL-2-only o los BSD* eliminar las licencias BSD-4) -[14:39] les sugiero que para sus alumnos, tengan un glosario en algún lado para que puedan ir a ese documento hasta que se familiaricen con estas palabras técnicas -[14:40] Anacleta: Trident fue un proyecto que distribuia sistemas descendientes de BSD (no me acuerdo cual especificamente), y ahora estan migrando para ser una distribucion de GNU con Linux. -[14:41] perdón que juegue con las palabras, solo así les puedo recordar porque estoy en un mundo ajeno a mí - Anacleta: ellos estan haciendo justamente el efecto opuesto al nuestro, la diferencia es que nosotros estamos queriendo desarrollar un sistema independiente con base de un descendiente BSD, como lo hizo OpenBSD la primera usando el codigo de NetBSD como base, ahora son independientes -[14:42]<@quiliro> Anacleta: buena idea…¿Podrías decirnos qué términos te parece que ameritan estar en el glosario? -[14:44]<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: todo esto que nos ha comentado Emulatorman me parece muy buena información para crear documentación bien organizada… ¡crees que nos puedas ayudar o conseguir alguien que lo haga? -<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: tenemos ya 3 dias de entrevista con él -[14:45] ¿puedes pasarme después las entrevistas? Espero que ya manden algún pasante de la universidad para que pueda hacerlo jaja porque estoy un poco ajustada de tiempo -[14:46] Buenas tardes con todos - hola -[14:47] buenas tardes - hola -[14:49]<@quiliro> profeluchito: buenas tardes ¿revisó el material que le envie por correo electrónico con los vínculos? son los mismos que vimos el jueves -*** Users on #asle: profeluchito coadde Anacleta @quiliro janaxpachapuka Emulatorman @torshido void09 - quiliro: estaria bueno que todo lo comentado fuera posible ser agregado en una pagina “paste” para que profeluchito pueda acompañar lo que fue hablado recientemente aqui en la sala -[14:50]<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: como pidió Emulatorman los publicaré en unos minutos -[14:52] Si revise el material que por cierto es muy extenso y no puede completar, pero sigo en eso - pues en relación al glosario, todas las palabras que no sean comunes al vocabulario (así como los libros de ciencia) -[14:53] Anacleta: ejemplo BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution) -[14:54] sipi - Hola, soy coadde, cofundador de Hyperbola Project, cualquier duda, estoy disponible. - wow! hola - Anacleta: o GNU (GNU’s Not Unix) -[14:55] eso y kernel y GPL esos - entonces, es más fácil estudiar este universo - Anacleta: GPL (GNU General Public License) -<@quiliro> ye! coadde , bemvindo -[14:56] en fin el GPL es GNU GPL - Anacleta: hola - quiliro: gracias -[14:58] quiliro: le pasaste este link ( https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.es.html ) a profeluchito? -[14:59]<@quiliro> no creo, Emulatorman -[15:00] es importante para sacar todas las dudas de las licencias GPL - ese link no - ya lo estoy revisando -[15:03] este parte del link es sumamente importante leer (principalmente la tabla) que indica las compatibilidades entre las distintas versiones de las licencias de GNU -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.es.html#AllCompatibility -[15:04] indico fuertemente este punto, pues en un futuro puede haber la posibilidad de portear codigo del kernel Linux al kernel de HyperbolaBSD - y hay que tener en cuenta que GPL-2+ no es lo mismo que GPL-2-only - parte del codigo de Linux es GPL-2-only, y parte es GPL-2+ -[15:05] y nuestro codigo esta usando ya parte del codigo bajo GPL-3+, lo que obliga que si quieren usar otras licencias de GNU, hay que no caer en la trampa del “+” o “only”, para evitar problemas legales -[15:06] ok - otro punto aqui, no obligamos que los alumnos, o desarrolladores voluntarios, tengan que explicitamente estar obligando licenciar su codigo bajo GPL-3*, siempre y cuando que la licencia preferida escogida sea compatible con la GPL-3+ -<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: publiqué en https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ -[15:08] Ahí es importante recalcar que solo prodrian escoger las licencias compatibles indicadas aqui -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses -[15:09]<@quiliro> es todo lo que hemos hablado jueves, viernes y hoy….al final, publico lo último de hoy también - versión traducida al castellano -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.es.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses -[15:10]<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: es bastante chat para leer pero si se puede hacer un resumen, sería algo excelente - nosotros no estamos reescribiendo código en HyperbolaBSD, sino que copiamos los algoritmos de OpenBSD y escribimos con expresión de idea nueva (para evitar el plagio) -[15:11]<@quiliro> profeluchito: ¿vino alguno de los alumnos? si puede, por favor invítelos para que aprendan -[15:12] hay que mencionar que esa parte que refiere coadde, es del codigo no compatible que eliminamos en HyperbolaBSD, y estamos implementando codigo nuevo compatible, usando los algoritmos utilizados en OpenBSD -[15:13] Emulatorman: tengo una duda: ¿GPL-2+ es igual que GPLv2? -[15:14]<@quiliro> coadde: he visto tus aportes en el repositorio…sin embargo, no entiendo bien….¿podríamos citarnos mañana para hacer un repaso de los cambios que has hecho como un ejemplo para poder también aportar? Me gustaría también tener material para estudiar hoy y presentar preguntas mañana - Anacleta: GPLv2 y GPL-2 son formas diferentes de mencionar la licencia GNU GPL version 2 - ok - gracias - Anacleta: cuando agregamos +, referimos que es 2 o superior, lo que permite que pueda ser compatible con versiones posteriores -[15:15] Anacleta: cuando dice “only”, se refiera que solo puede usar la version 2, pero no las posteriores - quiliro: ok -[15:16] Anacleta: eso empezó a ocurrir en el kernel Linux, porque el Sr. Tolvards no concuerda con la licencia de version 3, que no permite la Tivoizacion -> https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoización -[15:17] Loa alumnos hoy día no podían -[15:19] quiliro: mejor el jueves. - si -[15:20] ya leí el de wipidea: esa palabra jamás había leído - wikipedia, perdon - perdón -[15:21]<@quiliro> tivo es un aparato de hardware que usa el sistema operativo gnu -<@quiliro> pero no permite al dueño del aparato cambiar el software -<@quiliro> a menos que sea por una versión autorizada por el fabricante de Tivo - ok -[15:22]<@quiliro> la gpl3 impide ese abuso al usuario - Pero esto no lo vuelve open source ya que no es 100% libre? - aqui la opinion de Torvalds a respecto de rechazar la licencia de version 3 de GPL en el kernel Linux -> https://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/18/288 -[15:23]<@quiliro> open source es un término creado para evitar mencionar la libertad -[15:24]<@quiliro> así que quienes usan ese término no les importa la libertad del usuario - en la version inglesa explica mejor la tivoización -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization - dame un minuto, estoy leyendo el link anterior -[15:25] Anacleta: aqui explica bien porque el termino “open source” pierde de vista lo esencial del software libre -> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.es.html -[15:26]<@quiliro> opensource tiene los mismos software que el software libre pero las razones para defenderlo son distintas…así que quien defiende el opensource en realidad no le importa si el software respeta sus propias reglas -<@quiliro> ese vínculo de arriba es bueno para explicarlo -<@quiliro> bueno…vamos terminando -[15:27]<@quiliro> ha sido muy productivo como los otros dos días: jueves y viernes -[15:28]<@quiliro> ¿Hay alguna cosa más que quieran agregar Anacleta, janaxpachapuka, profeluchito, coadde o Emulatorman ? -[15:29] De mi parte no -[15:30]<@quiliro> janaxpachapuka: tienes contactos en senescyt? -[15:31] Tengo una organización para hacer HyperbolaBSD, después le puedo otorgar a los alumnos, para que puedan organizarse. - ni de la mía. voy a terminar de leer el link -[15:33]<@quiliro> coadde: no entendí qué puedes otorgar a los alumnos -<@quiliro> ah…tienes un método -[15:34]<@quiliro> para la construcción del nuevo sistema - quiliro: creo que refiere que tiene todo organizado para otorgar distintas tareas para cada grupo de alumnos -<@quiliro> oh….excelente -[15:35]<@quiliro> sin embargo, eso no es posible hasta que sepamos el nivel de conocimientos que tienen -<@quiliro> creo que se debe asignar tareas en base a eso - quiliro: ok -<@quiliro> no solamente al plan de ejecución -[15:36]<@quiliro> coadde: sería bueno que analices a cada participante y decidas qué asignar hasta que los participantes conozcan -[15:37]<@quiliro> ¿te parece correcto, coadde ? -[15:38]<@quiliro> Gracias a todos por venir. Les esperamos el miércoles a los que puedan - chao! hasta miércoles a las 2:00¿ -<@quiliro> profeluchito: usted supongo que convocará a los alumnos el jueves -[15:39]<@quiliro> así es Anacleta - quiliro: unos requisitos es saber bien el C, otro es el ensamblado (son pocos archivos), y por ultimo los archivos Makefile (para poder compilar el kernel) - quiliro: ok - si el jueves -[15:40]<@quiliro> entonces nos vemos el miércoles con Anacleta y el jueves con profeluchito -<@quiliro> gracias por su colaboración Emulatorman y coadde - quiliro: de nada -[15:41]<@quiliro> formaremos u excelente equipo -<@quiliro> un * -[15:42]<@quiliro> publico las entrevistas en https://www.asle.ec/entrevistas-hyperbolabsd/ -[15:43] Excelente que tengan una linda tarde y noche - quiliro: gracias por todo, y organizar todo esto para todos nosotros - ok, nos vemos el jueves -[15:44]* Emulatorman is afk -[15:45] \my is afk -* coadde is afk -~~~~ -
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-_Click on me to see_ - -## Meet 1 - 2021-04-05 - -~~~~{.irc} - Hola Quiliro -[13:54]<@quiliro> Hola Anacleta. ¡Que puntual! -*** #asle modes: +cnt -*** #asle was created on 2009-01-27 00:27:09 -<@quiliro> Hola Emulatorman_ -[13:57] y Quiliro también está puntual - oh me confundí -[13:58] hola -<@quiliro> Benvindos -[13:59]<@quiliro> Hoy quisiera preparar a Anacleta a que haga una introducción para los practicantes el día lunes. - jaja -[14:00] ok :) -<@quiliro> ¿crees que te puedes valer, Anacleta ? - o si !como no! -<@quiliro> chévere - no… - jajaja -<@quiliro> oh :-( -[14:01]<@quiliro> entonces no - no se pongan tristes! ustedes son los profes yo solo la aprendiz - su padawan -<@quiliro> ¿estás segura? ¡lánzate! -[14:02] segurísima…. -<@quiliro> bueno…entonces Emulatorman, procedamos con lo siguiente -<@quiliro> ya que se nos achicopaló Anacleta -<@quiliro> jaja -[14:03] jeje - qué clase prepararon para mí hoy día???????????????? -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: te parece que introduzcamos los conceptos de repositorios? -[14:04]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ¿o tienes algo más ya preparado? - ok -[14:07]<@quiliro> Anacleta: Entretanto, por favor revisa lo que vimos ayer. -[14:09] ok -[14:11]<@quiliro> https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/ -<@quiliro> ¿recuerdas la tarea que tenías, Anacleta ? - versión traducida -> https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org/entrevista-sobre-hyperbolabsd/ -<@quiliro> cierto -[14:12]<@quiliro> concepto de software libre -> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.es.html -<@quiliro> sobre licencias -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.es.html -<@quiliro> lista de licencias -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.es.html -[14:13]<@quiliro> el problema de la licencia BSD -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/bsd.es.html -[14:14]<@quiliro> video de 2016 de Stallman -> http://audio-video.gnu.org/video/2016-11-29--rms--el-software-libre-en-la-etica-y-en-la-practica--salamanca-spain--720p.ogv -<@quiliro> y http://audio-video.gnu.org/video en general -[14:15]<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¿Completaste la tarea que tenías de ayer? -<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¿Completaste la tarea que se te mandó ayer? -[14:18] si.. no tengo preguntas… todo me quedó claro -[14:19] yo tenía unas preguntas pero las respondí al leer los artículos -[14:20]<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¡Entonces sí puedes presentarlo el lunes! - las preguntas tienen su respuesta…. -<@quiliro> Entonces yo preguntaré: -[14:21] OK -<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¿Cómo se llama el sistema operativo que construímos? -<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¿Qué es el software libre? - HyperbolaBSD -[14:22]<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¡Mup bien! -<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¡Muy bien! - Es un conjunto de programas que protegen los derechos de libertad de los usuarios con sus 4 principios -<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¡Muy bien también! - gracias, gracias -[14:23] jaja -<@quiliro> ¿Cuál es la razón de hacer HyperbolaBSD? -[14:24]<@quiliro> (en lugar de seguir con GNU) - Porque la HyperbolaBSD es una versión actualizada y mejorada de GNU. -[14:25] Lo que no comprendo es por qué debe cambiar de nombre - Y para hacer estas modificaciones es necesario usar un lenguaje que se llama C -[14:26]<@quiliro> porque es un cambio de sistema operativo…ya no se usará GNU sino la mayor parte de OpenBSD - pero yo pensaba que de algun manera se debe recordar la gestión primaria de RMS -<@quiliro> El lenguaje C es un lenguaje que se “conecta” casi directamente con el hardware…es más eficiente -[14:27] ah yo no sabía eso -<@quiliro> es un lenguaje de bajo nivel….es muy poderoso -[14:28]<@quiliro> los otros lenguajes tienen muchos elementos que no se requieren en todas las tareas -[14:29]<@quiliro> esos lenguajes de alto nivel se usan más para cosas menos importantes y que no se usa todo el tiempo… las aplicaciones, por ejemplo -<@quiliro> lo de base se desarrolla en C -[14:30]<@quiliro> Anacleta: Emulatorman puede responder mejor sobre el asunto del cambio de sistema base de GNU a OpenBSD - ok, gracias -[14:31]<@quiliro> pienso que es porque OpenBSD es mejor construído y más seguro - si estuve leyendo una entrevista que le hicieron y habla de esto - queremos hacer en definitiva un descendiente de BSD porque el codigo es mas limpio y elegante para forkear y mantener, ademas de ser menos codigo la base de OpenBSD, y funciona como base para poder hacer un sistema independiente -[14:33] ok -[14:36]<@quiliro> Anacleta: Las licencias que son compatibles con GPLv3 pueden ser parte de HBSD porque esa es la licencia que se usará -<@quiliro> Anacleta: Si hay partes que no son compatibles, deben ser reemplazadas. -[14:37] ok -<@quiliro> Anacleta: En esa parte, participarás tú…en reemplazarlas - really! - ? -<@quiliro> pero para el lunes, debes entender bien los hipervínculos que te dimos -[14:38]<@quiliro> es el primer paso -[14:39] ok voy a revisarlos de nuevo… -<@quiliro> Anacleta: Yes, really! Si pones empeño, de seguro podrás. Para lograrlo, siempre debes completar las tareas encomendadas. - pero si hice el deber -[14:40]<@quiliro> Sí pero debes revisar antes de la clase también - ok -<@quiliro> :-) -[14:41]<@quiliro> that a girl! - me puedes dar un temario de términos que debo tener claro? -[14:42]<@quiliro> Anacleta: de hoy hasta el lunes pasarán 3 días…por eso debes revisar a diario -<@quiliro> Anacleta: es mejor que seas tú la que haga las preguntas - está bien -[14:43]<@quiliro> debes entender qué son las licencias en general y cómo afectan al software -<@quiliro> no es necesario que leas cada licencia -<@quiliro> Anacleta: debes saber por qué el software libre es importante en las computadoras -[14:44]<@quiliro> Anacleta: debes entender muy bien por qué es importante desarrollar HyperbolaBSD -[14:45]<@quiliro> Anacleta: debes entender bien qué es un kernel -<@quiliro> porque eso es lo primero que desarrollaremos - Las licencias compatibles mas comunes son, el GPL-3, GPL-2, LGPL-3, LGPL-2.1, Simplified-BSD (BSD-2), Modified-BSD (BSD-3), Expat, ISC (Version de Expat modificada por OpenBSD), MPL-2.0, Apache-2.0, X11 -<@quiliro> para tener un sistema base para que otros también se unan -[14:46]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: o sea que todas esas podemos usar en HyperbolaBSD -[14:47] voy a confirmar el de Apache-2.0 que aun no estoy seguro, me fijo… -[14:48] si, es compatible - ya tengo anotado todo lo de las licencias para comprender mejor -<@quiliro> excelente Anacleta -[14:49]<@quiliro> Anacleta: felicitaciones por el tesón que le pones - aqui hay un tema, cuando el GPL-2 o LGPL-2 le sacan la parte "version 2 o superior" le quitan la compatibilidad para las siguientes versiones. Eso se vió mucho en el kernel Linux -[14:50] ok -<@quiliro> sí: hay una diferencia muy importante entre GPL2 y GPL2+ -[14:51] que solo se ve en la práctica -<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¿entiendes por qué? -[14:52] claro porque la una (2) es mejorada que la otra (2 MÁS) no encuentro ese signo en mi teclado -<@quiliro> a dos a la derecha de la P -<@quiliro> sin shift - + -[14:53]<@quiliro> sí - gracias -<@quiliro> :-) -<@quiliro> Anacleta: si es GPL2, no puedo cambiar ese software GPL3 -[14:54] creo que hay un documento en gnu sobre las compatibilidades entre las licencias GPL -<@quiliro> pero si es GPL2+, si lo puedo cambiar de licencia a esa nueva version de licenciaa -[14:55]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: sería bueno el link, gracis - el signo + indica que son compatibles¿ -[14:56]<@quiliro> Anacleta: no, indica que ese software puede usar esa licencia o posteriores licencias escritas por la FSF -<@quiliro> pongamos un ejemplo - ok -<@quiliro> si tienes un software para educación a distancia -[14:57]<@quiliro> y ese software estaría bajo GPL2, podrá estar incluido en un hardware que no permita su modificación - pero por qué si es SL -<@quiliro> la licencia del software permite su modificación pero el hardware no lo permite, en este ejemplo -[14:58]<@quiliro> la GPL2 no contempla ese caso, por eso se escribió la GPL3 - que características debe tener la compu para instalarlo entonces -[14:59] Anacleta: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.es.html#AllCompatibility -[15:00] este no había leído - este FAQ en castellano es muy util para saber manejar todas las dudas sobre las licencias de GNU -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.es.html -<@quiliro> entonces, si el software es GPL2+, yo puedo cambiarle de licencia a GPL3 y así el fabricante de hardware no me puede impedir hacer cambios al software…la GPL3 se lo impide -<@quiliro> Anacleta: esos links vienen gracias a tus preguntas -<@quiliro> ;-) - aqui explica la razón de porque la licencia original de BSD de 4 clausuras (Original-BSD) no es compatible -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.es.html#OrigBSD -[15:01] que bien - > La licencia BSD revisada carece de dicha cláusula, lo cual elimina el problema. -[15:02] eso se refiere a la licencia de BSD de 3 clausuras que fue eliminado la clausura que genera incompatibilidad con la GPL - ok -<@quiliro> Anacleta: la cláusula problemática hace complicado incluir un software bajo esa licencia - la licancia BSD simplifica es la misma pero con otra clausura eliminada, o sea solo con 2 -[15:03]<@quiliro> simplifica -> simplificada -[15:05]<@quiliro> Anacleta: ¿tienes alguna otra pregunta? ya vamos a terminar - estoy tratando de entender esto ultimo dame un chance please -[15:06]<@quiliro> ok -[15:07] sigo leyendo…. - para comprender - debo leer los links me voy a quedar un ratito antes de cerrar. -<@quiliro> Anacleta: muy bien -<@quiliro> te esperamos por si acaso tengas alguna otra pregunta cuando termines -[15:11]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: Yo pensé que Anacleta solamente nos ayudaría para entrenamiento. Sin embargo, tiene mucha motivación y puede colaborar mucho con HyperbolaBSD y con los estudiantes. Ella no es informática pero quizá le tome gusto a la programación. De todas maneras, me parece una gran incorporación al equipo por todo lo que puede aportar. -[15:12] que chistosos! yo estoy nadando en un río que me es ajeno - claro que si, toda persona motivada es bienvenida, e inclusive no necesariamente tiene que saber programación para colaborar en HyperbolaBSD - hay un tema importantisimo que OpenBSD se enorgullese mucho y es la documentación - ya estoy comendiendo el tema de las licencias -[15:13] nosotros infelizmente vamos a tener que readaptar toda la documentacion para HyperbolaBSD luego de acabar todo - perdon comprendiendo - y otras hacer de cero por temas de incompatibilidad de licencias - umm -<@quiliro> que bueno Anacleta -[15:14]<@quiliro> revisaré la documentación de OpenBSD -[15:15]<@quiliro> con el motivo de estar listo para lo que se viene luego y así poder apoyar más - para que un programa sea con licencia NGU debe estar bajo esos parámetros únicament? - es como decir que si naciste dentro de X matrimonio de ley eres hijo de ese matrimonio¿ -[15:16]<@quiliro> Anacleta: Sí, si te refieres a la GPL. - umm pero debes inscribirlo -[15:17]<@quiliro> Anacleta: La GPL no permite cambio de licencia, excepto a una nueva versión si es + -<@quiliro> la prohibición de cambio de licencia la hace incompatible con otras licencias que impiden el cambio de licencia también -[15:18]<@quiliro> esta prohibición de cambio de licencia es para que nadie pueda cambiar de licencia a un software libre con el fin de hacerlo privativo -[15:19]<@quiliro> eso se llama izquierdo de autor o copyleft - ok - ahi nace el hecho de que en BSD odien tanto la licencia GNU -<@quiliro> como una contra al copyright que fue diseñado para restringir en lugar de libertar -[15:20] ok -<@quiliro> si no hay más preguntas o aclaraciones… - ellos usan licencias permisivas, eso significa que las modificaciones o versiones modificadas pueden ir con cualquier licencias y no hay obligacion de disribuir ese codigo, inclusive convertirlo en privativo esas modificaciones -[15:21] ok - gracias - tenemos un buen ejemplo que es Chromium que es un navegador con licencias permisivas y la version final que es Chrome es la version modificada pero privativa - ahora si se me ha calentado la cabeza con tanta información -<@quiliro> Anacleta, Emulatorman: Ha sido una excelente sesión. Gracias por participar. Les espero el lunes a la misma hora y por el mismo canal. ¡Felicitaciones! -[15:22] gracias a los dos por su paciencia -<@quiliro> encantado por mi parte, Anacleta -[15:23]<@quiliro> Anacleta: no olvides revisar cada dia el material, aunque sea unos minutos para que esté fresco -[15:24] ok -<@quiliro> con 5 o 10 minutos por día es bastante bueno -<@quiliro> ¡Un buen fin de semana a los dos! -[15:25] igualmente, chao! - nos vemos entonces, hasta el lunes! -[15:26]* Emulatorman is afk -~~~~ - -
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-_Click on me to see_ - -## Meet 0 - 2021-04-04 - -~~~~{.irc} -[14:06]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: podemos adelantar -<@quiliro> ¿cómo piensas iniciar con los practicantes? -<@quiliro> supongo que tienes que valorar el conocimiento que tienen -<@quiliro> luego darles tareas -[14:08] lo que se me ocurre en la mente es que ellos puedan rescribir nuevo codigo, o sea que lean el codigoexistente en OpenBSD 6.6 y luego producir lo mismo pero de forma original y sin copiar nada del otro lado. Es lo que un iniciante de C puede hacer y adquirir experiencia rapido - obviamente hay mas para hacer, pero es lo basico para un estudiante de C -[14:09] despues habria que hacer otro grupo para revisar el hyperman que si bien no es C, es shell puro, pero estaria bueno probar si puede funcionar sin bash, pues queremos que sea funcional con ksh -[14:10] hay otras fases de desarrollo mas complejos, pero creo que al menos para comenzar es lo mas basico que se puede hacer -[14:11] de mientras voy viendo como organizar el tema de los ensamblados para x86 y ARM, si conseguimos estudiantes para eso, seria genial, pero es mucho pedir por ahora -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: hagamos un simulacro - ahora el objetivo es lograr funcionar apenas el kernel -[14:12]<@quiliro> ¿te parece si pido a alguien ser nuestro conejillo de indias? - como quieras -<@quiliro> recuerda que son personas que no sabenn mucho - entonces en ese caso es mejor que rescriban codigo - es lo basico de lo basico en C -[14:13]<@quiliro> y que posiblemente se les tenga que enseñar hasta prender la compu…puedo colaborar…pero te advierto que pueden venir muy novatos - habria que tener a alguien que verifique que no haya plagio, en ese caso nosotros y tu - porque en ese caso no nos sirve a nosotros y ni a ellos, porque apenas estan copiando - ok, no hay problema -<@quiliro> creo que eso es un paso posterior -[14:14]<@quiliro> lo primero es formarlos - lo conveniente es que ellos aprendan lo esencial de C por lo menos - y despues comenzar -[14:15] y cuando comiencen, debe de haber un guia o alguien para calificar la calidad de codigo y que no hagan plagio -[14:16] pero al menos, antes de todo esto, ellos tienen que saber por lo menos lo esencial -<@quiliro> vamos despacio - y tambien tener conocimiento de las licencias -<@quiliro> debemos ver qué nos viene -[14:17]<@quiliro> voy a pedir a mi novia que nos haga un simulacro como si ella fuese el practicante -<@quiliro> si te parece bien - ok - yo pienso que lo primero a enseñar es el concepto de software libre - y las licencias - es lo fundamental de todo -[14:18] porque que nos sirve un futuro buen dev, si le interesa solo hacer software no libre :P - ademas el tema de compatibilidad de licencias - esto es un mundo -[14:19] porque dentro de los activistas y desarrolladores de software libre, estan muy divididos con el concepto de licencias copyleft y licencias permisivas, y muchas de ellas como la “Original BSD” de 4 clausulas no nos sirve para nada - ya que el codigo actual esta siendo implementado con GPL-3, ya no se puede usar codigo con BSD-4 -[14:20] pienso que el primer paso esta ahi - enseñarles el concepto de software libre - y libertad como un todo - , luego las licencias -[14:21] Hola, soy una alumna nueva interesada en el proyecto - y como aplicar en ciertos casos (codigo principal, librerias, documentacion) - hola anacleta -[14:22]<@quiliro> anacleta nos ayudará con el simulacro -<@quiliro> bienvenida anacleta - He sido invitada a este curso. Soy la alumna nueva - gracias a los dos -[14:23] Ok, nuestro proyecto se trata de completar nuestro sistema operativo llamado HyperbolaBSD, el sistema operativo es el sistema base que se encarga de gestionar todas las tareas de una computadora, principalmente hecho por un nucleo llamado kernel -[14:24]<@quiliro> anacleta: Felicitaciones por asistir. Este programa es para incluirte en el grupo de desarrollo del nuevo sistema operativo HyperbolaBSD -<@quiliro> anacleta: ¿Qué te parece? - nuestro objetivo inicial es completar el nucleo, esa razon es debido que HyperbolaBSD esta planeado para implementar nuevas caracteristicas heredadas del nucleo Linux y nuevo codigo hecho con GPL-3 o licencia compatible -[14:26] déjenme ver si entiendo…. un programa como clementine para instalar música en mi dispositivo (XYZ) no importa su nombre puede ser instalada en este sistema operativo? - para iniciar las tareas debemos de conocer los conceptos de software libre y licencias para poder lograr entender la razon de la existencia de HyperbolaBSD - ok… - qué beneficios le da a mi compu el instalar HyperbolaBSD? -[14:27] anacleta: al ser un nuevo sistema operativo, clementine solo puede ser incluido haciendo una adaptacion para ese sistema, llamado de porteo o como dicen en inges “port” -<@quiliro> clementine es una aplicacion que corre sobre un sistema operativo -[14:28]<@quiliro> anacleta: hyperbolabsd pretende ser seguro y compacto, así como libre y liviano… - ya veo estoy confundida entre sistema operativo y una aplicación… no son lo mismo… sin embargo, entiendo que una aplicación debe ser instalado en un sistema operativo, o me equivoco? - anacleta: la idea de HyperbolaBSD es lograr heredar la excelente calidad de codigo del BSD + lo bueno de las caracteristicas heredadas de GNU/Linux, por esa razon HyperbolaBSD seria hecho en un concepto “Oceano Azul” de las visiones de GNU/Linux y los BSDs -<@quiliro> anacleta: a diferencia de GNU con Linux, es más ordennado -[14:29]<@quiliro> anacleta: exactamente! - OK. - Ahora, aclárenme que es un kernel.. dónde lo encuentro? o cómo sé que he llegado al kernel -[14:30] anacleta: hay un libro que habla sobre la estrategia del “Oceano Azul”, es la estrategia planteada por Hyperbola Project, y la razon de porque existe HyperbolaBSD -<@quiliro> el kernel es el núcleo en inglés - oh… - kernel es el nucleo, que se encarga de gestionar todas las tareas de la computadora -[14:31]<@quiliro> es lo base para conectar el resto de programas al hardware (disco duro, teclado, ratón, etc) - el libro que menciona Emulatorman es una "introducción filosófica" es más para saber las libertades que alcanzo al usar HyberbolaBSD? -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ¿tienes un link al libro? - ejemplo: mientras tu estas escribiendo aqui, el kernel del sistema esta gestionando la memoria y administrando las diferentes tareas que dejaste en la compu, etc - ya paso -[14:32] si dame el link por favor - algún momento se satura, llena, raya, o se daña el kernel? - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy -[14:33] lindo! estoy abriendo el libro - anacleta: si le sucede algo malo al kernel, literalmente el sistema se detiene y deja de funcionar -<@quiliro> el núcleo o kernel es como el corazón del sistema….nada se puede usar sin conectar con el hardware…el núcleo conecta el hardware con el resto del sistema operativo -[14:34] ummm, será que usar HyperbolaBSD permite que kernel tenga calidad de “vida”? -<@quiliro> anacleta: el sistema operativo sostiene a las aplicaciones como clementine - el libro originalmente fue pensado para empresas sobre temas de marketing, pero a lo que quiero llegar a referir es que la estrategia de oceano azul es un concepto de implementar una nueva idea y crear un nuevo paradigma con este sistema -<@quiliro> el núcleo es parte del sistema operativo -[14:35]<@quiliro> jaja, anacleta -<@quiliro> anacleta: no calidad de vida…solamente vida - hola profeluchito - ya vino el profe -[14:36]<@quiliro> oh…bienvenido profeluchito - hola, perdon pero no sabia en que sala - yo soy el cuy de labortorio - y no seguir haciendo lo mismo, lo que a largo plazo nosotros queremos llegar es hacer un sistema basado en BSD con los conceptos del mundo de GNU - Guinea Pig -<@quiliro> estamos haciendo un simulacro de una estudiante que entra al chat a hacer prácticas - primera vez que me conecto por este chat y andaba un poco perdido - regreso en 5 min… -[14:37] sigo leyendo denme un ratito -<@quiliro> profeluchito: estábamos explicando a anacleta lo que es HyperbolaBSD -[14:38]<@quiliro> profeluchito: es importante conectarse con antelación por favor -[14:39]<@quiliro> anacleta: ¿comprende usted el concept de software libre? -[14:40] hola profeluchito, soy André, uno de los fundadores de Hyperbola Project y mentor de HyperbolaBSD - un placer - para mi también es un placer -[14:41] no me he ido, sigo leyendo - explico de lo que se trata HyperbolaBSD, como el nombre indica, es un sistema operativo descendiente de BSD, que se usó la base de OpenBSD para continuar un desarrollo independiente, o sea un hard-fork -[14:43] la diferencia de HyperbolaBSD es marcar una estrategia de "Oceano Azul" entre lo que hay en el mundo de los sistemas BSD y el GNU/Linux, ver sobre estrategia de Oceano Azul en https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy - o sea en resumen, es tener un sistema elegante de BSD con los beneficios de lo que se vió con el copyleft usado en GNU y en Linux -[14:44] para eso HyperbolaBSD será el primer sistema descendiente BSD usando licencias no-BSD y si del proyecto GNU -[14:45] los beneficios que se lograran es que se podran importar caracteristicas del mundo de GNU/Linux mientras las licencias sean compatibles obviamente (ej. HyperbolaBSD esta siendo desarrollado en licencia GPL-3, y no podriamos implementar GPL-2-only de codigo para importar) - Interesante el océano rojo está promoviendo la competencia (desleal inclusive) y el océano azúl es crecimiento en conjunto? - si tambien eso -[14:46] la idea de HyperbolaBSD es lograr unir los 2 mundos dentro del software libre, por la razon de usar el GPL del mundo de GNU en una plataforma de BSD -[14:47] eso tambien permitira que teniendo un nuevo kernel el propio proyecto GNU se beneficie tambien, y porque no precisaria estar dependiente solamente de Linux o Hurd, y podrian hacer uso de nuestro kernel - ok. Es decir que incluye los dos océanos y con las 4libertades del SL? -[14:48] no en si, el concepto de oceano azul es salir del concepto de que solo el GPL solo puede ser usado en GNU/Linux y que las licencias BSD solo pueden ser usadas en los sistemas BSD -[14:49] es lograr un nuevo concepto, tener un BSD que pueda implementar tambien cosas buenas de GNU/Linux, y lograr hacer una tercera opcion. En pocas palabras a largo plazo sera un sistema hibrido entre el mundo de BSD y lo de GNU/Linux - ya me perdí… qué es el GPL? - bueno volviendo al asunto, estoy aqui por la gran idea de quiliro incluir un grupo de practicantes -[14:50]<@quiliro> el mundo BSD tiene mejor calidad de código -<@quiliro> GPL es la licencia que diseñó la FSF para GNU - GPL es una licencia hecha por el proyecto GNU que implica que las cambios, modificaciones, redistribuciones o descendientes de ese codigo deban de seguir con la misma licencia - OK gracias -[14:51] ya vuelvo en un minuto - despues estan las licencias permisivas de BSD, que si bien son libres y siguen las 4 libertades, no garantizan que las modificaciones, o descendientes de esos tengan que distribuir el codigo o que sean libres -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: pienso que es hora de darle una tarea a anacleta -[14:52]<@quiliro> le podemos mandar a leer algo y a hacer un pequeño ejercicio - creo que es vital que lea sobre software libre - y las licencias -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: tienes links? - es lo primordial antes de comezar y entender porque existe el projecto HyperbolaBSD - si, la mayoria en la gnu.org -[14:53]<@quiliro> gnu.org/licenses ? -<@quiliro> https://gnu.org/licenses - ya leo este último link -[14:54] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html - la lista -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html - el problema de BSD y sus licencias con las licencias de GNU -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/bsd.html -[14:55]<@quiliro> anacleta: mejor los vínculo de Emulatorman -[14:56]<@quiliro> profeluchito: ¿Qué le parece hasta ahora? -[14:57] para resumir, tuvimos una entrevista sobre HyperbolaBSD en It’s FOSS - hay esta explicado con detalles todos los puntos con diferentes preguntas -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ¿qué le pedimos a anacleta para nuestra próxima reunión mañana? - puede ayudar como un FAQ para lo que estamos hablando ahora -[14:58]<@quiliro> una tarea - Bueno, como le comente del tema de software libre conozco muy poco y me toca aprender mucho - aqui esta la entrevista -> https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/ -<@quiliro> profeluchito: puede investigar los vínculos que ha dado Emulatorman -[14:59] claro, ya los abri y estaba revisando - para entender en profundidad el tema de software libre, recomiendo comenzar por este link -> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html -[15:00] quiliro: recomiendo que se lean los links - quiliro: tambien videos de Stallman que hablen sobre software libre, ahi dejo a ti que sabras mejor que yo -[15:01]<@quiliro> profeluchito: ¿podemos involucrar a los estudiantes el día jueves por este mismo canal? -[15:02] una consulta… me dediqué a leer y me perdí este chat… será que me dan tarea para la próxima clase, de tal forma que leo y tengo millones de preguntas? -<@quiliro> hay un vídeo muy bueno que hiso Richard Stallman para el software freedom day 2016 claro, voy a conversar con ellos para convocarles a esta reunión. -[15:03]<@quiliro> profeluchito: chévere - Voy también a los alumnos enviarles los link que nos acaban de enviar para que se vayan empapando del software libre -[15:04] y el dia de la reunión tengan por lo menos algo de conocimiento al respecto del tema -<@quiliro> anacleta: la tarea es leer todos los hipervínculos que ha dado Emulatorman y ver la conferencia de stallman…debe saber cuáles son las 4 libertades y para qué sirven a los usuarios de computadoras…debe hacer al menos 4 preguntas mañana por este mismo canal -[15:05]<@quiliro> profeluchito: ¡excelente! así habremos ganado mucho tiempo -[15:06]<@quiliro> anacleta: cree usted que pueda lograr esa tarea para mañana? -<@quiliro> ya les paso el link de la conferencia de richard stallman -[15:09] ya abrí los links, solamente debo sentarme a leer. Veo que se debe tener conocimientos de inglés técnico… -[15:10] en las páginas de GNU…. -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: tenemos versiones en castellano? -<@quiliro> español - hay version en castellano en las paginas de GNU - les paso los links traducidos - OK -[15:11]<@quiliro> oh…cierto que se puede seleccionar arriba el idiomaa - osea que no tengo excusas para hacer la tarea jaja! - déjenme ver - concepto de software libre -> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.es.html -[15:12] sobre licencias -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.es.html - o sí ya vi - lista de licencias -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.es.html - gracias -[15:13] el problema de la licencia BSD -> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/bsd.es.html - en la lista de licencias estan categorizados los que son compatibles con GPL y no -[15:14] para HyperbolaBSD solo se podrian aceptar licencias compatibles con la GPL, principalmente la version 3 -[15:16] hay que tener en cuenta que las licencias GPL son compatibles entre sus propias version, a excepcion si una de las versiones no aceptan mezclar o actualizar a una version posterior (ej. el kernel Linux tiene una cantidad considerable de codigo que limita a no poder mezclar con la version 3 de la GPL, ellos usan la version GPL 2 con la limitacion de no actualizar) -<@quiliro> no encuentro la lista de vídeos de stallman -<@quiliro> en ingl - quiliro: puede ser este -> http://audio-video.gnu.org/ - ? -<@quiliro> eso -[15:17] aqui -> http://audio-video.gnu.org/video/ - pregunta! en base a libertades de SL: qué diferencia hay entre libre y gratis? - se suele decir: el ingreso al teatro es libre (sin costo) -[15:18] se presta a confunción -[15:19] anacleta: el termino “libre” en software libre se refiere a libertad, no en precio. En resumen, es tener el control de tu propia informatica -<@quiliro> sí, Emulatorman -[15:20]<@quiliro> especialmente los que están en la sección short videos -<@quiliro> anacleta y profeluchito : se puede buscar en esa página los vídeos que tengan la etiqueta "spanish" -[15:21] anacleta: cuando un software no es libre, estas bajo el control del desarrollador o el que tiene el derecho de autor de la misma, lo cual en pocas palabras el tiene el control de tu informatica y como debe de funcionar y ser usado en tu entorno informatico -[15:22] anacleta: para que un software sea libre, debe de cumplir las 4 libertades. - ok -<@quiliro> anacleta y profeluchito : recomiendo los cortos (Short videos) para empezar - ya entiendo.. por eso hotmail aunque tiene el car -[15:23] ya entiendo.. por eso hotmail aunque tiene el carácter de libre es privativo porque no lo puedo modificar como yo desearía -[15:24] libre como gratis -<@quiliro> Sí, hotmail es libre para microsoft pero gratis para tí -[15:25] ok -<@quiliro> es libre para microsoft porque puede hacer lo que quiera con hotmail…tú no lo puedes hacer aunque no te cueste [nada más que toda tu vida expuesta a elos] -[15:26] quiliro: creo que hay una traducción de la entrevista en -castellano sobre HyperbolaBSD - que pasa con el SL que yo pudiera vender a alguien a un X precio y lo paga… ¿debo darle algo de regalías al papá de ese programa? - lo voy a buscar… -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: excelente -[15:27]<@quiliro> anacleta: no se requiere -<@quiliro> anacleta: el software libre no tiene ataduras al autor… por eso es libre -[15:28]<@quiliro> pero eso no quiere decir que el autor pida dinero …. antes de dártelo -<@quiliro> después, ya no puede -[15:29]<@quiliro> y si tú entregas ese software a un tercero, el autor no puede pedirle nada - oh y de qué vive el autor del programa? - https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org/entrevista-sobre-hyperbolabsd/ -<@quiliro> de la misma manera que un profesor, de su trabajo -[15:30] ahi esta la entrevista en castellano traducida por heckyel (uno de nuestro equipo) -<@quiliro> pero no puede obligar al alumno a pagarle posteriormente por el uso o distribución de ese conocimiento -<@quiliro> grande heckyel! -[15:31]<@quiliro> ¿es bueno el ejemplo, anacleta ? -[15:32]*** Users on #asle: anacleta Emulatorman @quiliro @torshido void09 - en la entevista explica el porcentaje que vamos a tener que hacer en desarrollo - al menos del kernel -[15:33] profeluchito: te paso el link de la entrevista en castellano -> https://conocimientoslibres.tuxfamily.org/entrevista-sobre-hyperbolabsd/ -[15:34] ok gracias -[15:36] debo leer bastantes cosas! y siguen apareciendo más y más links! -<@quiliro> haha -<@quiliro> jaja - estoy en las mismas -[15:37]<@quiliro> no son cosas tan complicadas -<@quiliro> pero si tienen preguntas, no duden en hacerlas -<@quiliro> ¡a veces la mariposa se olvida de que fue oruga! -[15:38] si y acabo de encontrar la re spuesta a mi pregunta aquí en el link -<@quiliro> Emulatorman y yo tenemos paciencia… - también lo llamamos «libre» para enfatizar que nos referimos a la libertad, y no al precio [1]. Algunos programas privativos, como Photoshop, son muy caros; otros, como la aplicación de Uber, son gratuitos, -[15:39]<@quiliro> anacleta: ¿Cuál pregunta? valga la aclaración… yo estudié a distancia hace muuuuuuuuucho tiempo! y me acordé de que me daban un banco de preguntas y los textos para leer y responder a las preguntas -<@quiliro> anacleta: ¿la de cómo viven? -[15:40] no no la de libre/gratis - de paso yo aprendía las definiciones -[15:41]<@quiliro> anacleta: ahora el banco de preguntas las harás tú! -<@quiliro> y nosotros las contestaremos - a qué se refiere el texto al malware… qué tipo de daño me hace? -[15:42] dice que me maltrata como usuaria -<@quiliro> no lo he leído…pero malware es aquello que hace lo que no quieres -<@quiliro> es un programa malicioso -[15:43]<@quiliro> por ejemplo uno que no te permite modificaciones o usarlo más de cierto tiempo - ok -<@quiliro> depende lo que quieras hacer y que te prohiba, aunque tenga la capacidad -[15:44]<@quiliro> el software libre te lo permite -<@quiliro> también es malware aquello que te daña lo que ya tienes - yo entiendo que malware es aquel que saca mis datos y los usa sin mi autorización… que pasa con el usuario que tiene la capacidad para modificarlo y en esa modificacion pone algo que obtiene datos de los usuarios a los que le instala el programa… yo no tengo esa capacidad… no todavía -<@quiliro> por ejemplo que si no actualizas windows, te bloquea el acceso a internet -[15:46] Si malware es un sotfware malicioso que te infecta a tu dispositivo y te roba información, datos etc -[15:47]<@quiliro> anacleta: tendrás esa capacidad cuando aprendas … los que saben, no usan sus conocimientos abiertamente dañar a otros…en software libre, el código es visible y se puede notar que es dañino…así que es muy raro tener código malware con intención -[15:48]<@quiliro> solamente se da en software privativo, en general el malware - «servicio sustitutivo del software» (SaaSS), que significa que un servidor ajeno realiza las tareas informáticas del usuario. Qué tipo de tareas? -<@quiliro> escribir textos, por ejemplo -[15:49] ummm -<@quiliro> hay páginas web diseñadas para que escribas texto…eso se puede hacer directamente en tu computador - un virus (no el Covid19) por si acaso…. es un ejemplo? -<@quiliro> es una invasión al usuarioo -[15:50]<@quiliro> un vírus de computadora normalmente es maligno pero no necesariamente lo debe ser -[15:51]<@quiliro> puede ser que haga algo bueno! aunque no conozco uno que haga cosas buenas - ok -<@quiliro> un virus es un programa que se difunde solo e infecta a otras computadoras -[15:52]*** Users on #asle: profeluchito anacleta Emulatorman @quiliro @torshido void09 - Bueno tengo que retirarme, tengo que asistir a una cita medica, un gusto haber compartido con ustedes -<@quiliro> también el webmail es un SaaSS -<@quiliro> profeluchito: nos vemos el lunes - tengo mucho material que revisar, gracias por todo -[15:53] ok -<@quiliro> un gusto profeluchito - bueno, un gusto profeluchito, nos vemos el lunes entonces - el lunes les invito a los alumnos tambien -<@quiliro> profeluchito: encantados -<@quiliro> será muy agradable -[15:54] una pregunta antes de irse, no seria despues bueno hacer reuniones por mumble? - que tengan una buena tarde - digo… porque muchas veces por audio es mas agil hacer preguntas -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: pero hay mucha interrupción con mucha gente -[15:55] quiliro: ok, entonces hacemos por IRC como esta siendo ahora -<@quiliro> en texto es más sencillo pero no se puede guardar o analizar lo realizado -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: gracias mil por comprender -[15:56]<@quiliro> quiero analizar y pulir el método - ok, no hay problema :) -<@quiliro> para hacerlo excelente -<@quiliro> para mentorear -[15:57] claro -[15:58]<@quiliro> anacleta: Muchísimas gracias por hacer de conejillo de indias. Ha sido de mucha utilidad. Por favor has un feedback….contamos contigo mañana también - quiliro: ademas, mas alla de HyperbolaBSD, estamos haciendo activismo por la libertad, ya que estamos instruyendo futuros profesionales a entrar en el movimiento del software libre -[15:59] Está super bien los textos de introducción al SL está muy claro -<@quiliro> sí :-) -[16:00] Pero es bastante información para leer y trabajar con ustedes on line a tiempo real a la vez… me parece bien mandar “tarea para la casa” y responder a preguntas del profe -[16:01] Yo no sé si alguien a quien no le guste leer se dedique - por eso estan los videos -<@quiliro> anacleta: ¿te parece mucha lectura? -[16:02] anacleta, para quien no le gusta leer, es recomendable ver los videos en http://audio-video.gnu.org/video/ - me di cuenta de que la respuesta a mi pregunta estaba en el texto -[16:04] ya vi… -<@quiliro> quizá sería bueno hacer una introducción con los links paraque escoja el estudiante cuales recursos usar, audio, vídeo, texto, imágenes… - si… -<@quiliro> como proponía profeluis - pero yo les pediría un día para leer y tener mas conocimientos y hacer preguntas que no sean obvias -[16:05]<@quiliro> tienes 22 horas, anacleta … ¡casi un día! - toma tiempo leer todo…. si pero debo hacer otras cosas también… -<@quiliro> si se espera más tiempo, la gente se olvida -[16:06]<@quiliro> tiene que ser algo diario - claro… entonces que les parece dar de dos en dos los textos para leer -<@quiliro> con que dediques una o dos horas, bastará - porque yo le leí de pe a pa - ahh -[16:07]<@quiliro> uno o dos vídeos de 30 minutos y esbosar los textos - sabes, yo creo que deben indicar a los alumnos a donde se pretende llegar para que no se vayan antes de terminar la clase -[16:08] es decir: en un mes en un año, en un siglo aprenderé a programar…. -<@quiliro> empezamos 14h15, terminamos 15h45 -[16:09]<@quiliro> anacleta: es buena idea…..pero eso depende de cada persona….¿Cómo estimar ese tiempo? - quiliro: seria este el video de 2016 de Stallman que mencionastes? -> http://audio-video.gnu.org/video/2016-11-29--rms--el-software-libre-en-la-etica-y-en-la-practica--salamanca-spain--720p.ogv -[16:10]<@quiliro> anacleta: podemos decir que cuando realice tal tarea, ha avanzado a tal hito -<@quiliro> es buen link -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ^ -[16:11]<@quiliro> no lo dí porque ví que es mejor dar la opción al alumno…. -<@quiliro> ahora pienso que no -<@quiliro> es mejor llevarlo de la mano al principio -<@quiliro> los textos que recomendaste y el vídeo que acabas de dar -[16:12] qué pasa si -me quedo sin electricidad- ¿pierdo estos links? -<@quiliro> sí anacleta - eso es un problema! -<@quiliro> pero se puede mandar por correo electrónico - eso es bueno, que el alumno tenga “su mochila con libros” -<@quiliro> si Emulatorman se enferma también será un problema… -[16:13] claro! -<@quiliro> pero se recuperará y seguimos -<@quiliro> eso me gusta: mochila con libros -[16:14] yo creo que ustedes deben dar su clase y el alumno debe leer el texto respectivo uno a la vez o texto o video *** Users on #asle: anacleta Emulatorman @quiliro @torshido void09 -<@quiliro> anacleta: me parece bien -[16:18]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: creo que los links debemos dar al final de la reunión -[16:20]<@quiliro> excelente reunión, anacleta y Emulatorman -[16:21]<@quiliro> gracias por su participación -[16:22]<@quiliro> Emulatorman y anacleta : ¿Podemos vernos mañana a las 14h00 (UTC-5) hasta las 15h00? -[16:23]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ¿te parece si el día lunes presenta anacleta lo que has presentado hoy? así ella practica -<@quiliro> Emulatorman: la podemos preparar mañana -[16:24] bueno, al ser teoría… solo debo leer para comprender mejor el contexto - estuve volviendo a leer desde el principio y con lo que leí de los links se me hizo más fácil entender. -<@quiliro> además, ella es muy dedicada -[16:25] si mañana a las 2pm - hora quiteña -<@quiliro> terminamos a las 3pm -<@quiliro> sí - voy a leer a vuelo de pájaro los textos que tengo abiertos en mi navegador para familiarizarme con las palabras difíciles -[16:26]<@quiliro> gracias anacleta … has sido una ayuda invaluable… contamos con tu continuada colaboración - en punto a las 2. ya voy a copiar la clase de - hoy -[16:27] si no tengo trabajo, cuenten conmigo. -<@quiliro> ¡ok! :-) -<@quiliro> ok -[18:13]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ¿Qué pasó? - no entiendo… ¿pasó que? -[18:15]<@quiliro> No contestaste más. -<@quiliro> ya se fue anacleta -[18:16]<@quiliro> Emulatorman: ¿Qué te pareció el ejercicio de hoy? - esta bien, un buen comienzo -~~~~ - -